The all too early Season Two thread (possible spoilers)

[Dave_LF]

They go beyond hints. If he ends up being anyone else, it won’t have been misdirection, it will have been outright deceit. And I’ll be annoyed.

Regarding Galadriel, I was, among other things, thinking back to season 1, where she took a voluntary guilt trip in the episode after Mount Doom erupted. Which I can’t see being her fault in any interpretation of the events.

[Frelga]

I agree with Dave. Halbrand was a mystery, but Stranger is very strongly Gandalf coded, up to the halflings using gand for wand. Besides, movie fans expect Gandalf, and have no idea who Alatar or Pallando are. There would be screaming.

But I was wrong about Halbrand, and I could be wrong about this.

Re Galadriel - of course she blames herself. She is supposed to be the commander, infallible, decisive, capable, and she wasn't able to stop any of this from going down. It doesn't matter if she realistically could.

I really love what they did with Galadriel. Can't remember another character who got to be feminine in a non-sexual way, and heroic with the same tropes and failings as male heroic leaders.

Final thought - I really loved in e1 that Gil-galad made a very important announcement to his people via a song.

[Alatar]

But Galdalf literally means Staff Elf, or Wand Elf. Gand is the word for Staff/Wand. I really hope its not Gandalf. That would be lazy. Also, I'm pretty sure I remember an interview from very early on where one of the writers was asked if it was Gandalf and they said quite evasively that there were other very similar characters that were around at that time.

[Inanna]

I hope so too, Alatar. It would be really interesting if it wasn’t.

[Frelga]

I don't have a strong opinion, but it seems a bit too much to spend another season guessing about a character's identity.

Watched e3. Still good.

Númenórean intrigues aren't my favorite thing (in general, it's not my favorite fantasy genre) but what a gorgeous sight! The coronation dress alone, straight out of Byzantine icons.

Pharazon is perfect, to the audience he is clearly your scheming evil minister, but also you can see how he projects wisdom and authority if you expect to see it in a certain shape.

Was I alone in thinking that Berek the Wonder Horse was smarter than the Eagle?

Dwarves were the best part.

Fandom is going to fan, and we are seeing the predictable "uwu, Sauron is a precious smol bean I don't care how evil he is" comments, which is usually annoying, but in this context hilarious, because that is exactly the reaction Sauron wants.

The show isn't going for overt political parallels, but I noted Sauron's rhetoric. "I know you have troubles and I alone can help you fix it.

[WampusCat]

Good to see you, Voronwë!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I watched the first 3 episodes today. I liked the Annatar reveal, and some of the stuff with the dwarves. Otherwise, I thought it was a lot of nonsense.

I'll still watch it though.

[dormouse]

E4 and still enjoying it.. I'm starting to think that they sat down with every Tolkien book and letter and made a list of all the characters and creatures that might have existed in some form in the Second Age, and then dreamed up a way to weave them in to the story. That sounds forced, but it doesn't feel it. I thought Bombadil was a delight. Haven't fathomed the Dark Wizard yet. I do regret Joseph Mawle's Adar, but I suppose if he wanted to move on there was nothing they could do. The replacement is OK, but doesn't have quite the same presence yet.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Against all the odds I really liked Bombadil and the Ents. And even the Stoors. But I can't abide the Elrond Galadriel Gil-Gilad relationships. It just jars too much with my head canon.

[Frelga]

V, I am sure one of the reasons why I can enjoy the show so much is that I have very few Silm headcanons. It sounds like you are able to enjoy the wholly invented parts more than those more rooted in canon.

[Snowdog]

Halfway through the season and it is remarkably better than S1. I haven't really come across any seriously cringeworthy moments yet, though I thought the 'watcher in the mud' scene was a bit of a reach. Enjoyed Tom Bombadil, and hope he gets more 'Bombadilish' in the future.The Barrow Wight scene was pretty good even if I can't reconcile the wights inhabiting the barrows in the 2nd age. There were barrows, but the renaimated dead didn't happen until the days of the Witch King in the 3rd age. I did like the look of them, and they had me wishing that they were the 'Army of the Dead' in Return of the King instead of the iridescent 'green ants' PJ envisioned. Ep4 has been the weakest episode so far in my opinion, but I suppose it is expected being more of a 'bridging' episode, even though the bridge was destroyed.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

As for the Dark Wizard, I wish that he and the Stranger would prove to be the 2 Blue Wizards. But I suspect they will turn out to be Gandalf and Saruman. Blech!

X-posted with Frelga and Snowdog. Frelga, yes exactly.

[Dave_LF]

Was Bombadil in there? I don’t remember encountering that carefree and careless above-it-all enigma, though now that you mention it, I guess there was scene with a Middle Earth Yoda who went by the same name despite explicitly being there to train Jedistari in the ways of the light (side).

But seriously, remember how the original crew said that even though they chose not include the events between the ferry and Bree, they were still careful not to *contradict* them, so you could remain free to imagine they’d happened offscreen? That’s awkward now, because you have to wonder why there was an entirely different place named The Barrow Downs thousands of years earlier where very similar events played out, and why Gollum knew their song, and so forth.

[Alatar]

But seriously, remember how the original crew said that even though they chose not include the events between the ferry and Bree, they were still careful not to *contradict* them, so you could remain free to imagine they’d happened offscreen?

People say this but then conveniently forget how much they changed in the scenes that they did show! LotR was much less purist than people remember, because its become a classic in its own right.

[Dave_LF]

Not making any comment on the purism of the films, just noting that since this series is (I think?) meant to be set in the same version of Tolkien's universe as team PJ's, the decisions they make here can weirdly color and limit the ways we interpret the original.

And speaking of colors and limits, what are the show's alt-right detractors supposed to say now that it turns out there actually is a thought-through explanation for why the Harfoots have a range of skin tones? Poor guys. :tinyviolin:

[Holbytla]

I was having a discussion with one of my kids about the canon issues regarding the films and the Rings of Power series. He was more tolerant of the films, and saw this series as a way to use character names and places to invent a story and rake in cash. He's not having this series at all.

I'm not offended at all by this series as far as canon goes, and I find it somewhat entertaining. The canon I'm not having an issue with, because it's pretty much all invented.

Them being more than a thousand years off in the timeline annoys me. The Galadriel/Elrond relationship annoys me. Bombadil in Rhun annoys me. Shoving entwives, the Watcher in the Water, Barrow Wights and Bombadil into one episode was annoying. Blatantly gratuitous. Fine.

Nothing that I've seen so far in this series comes close to the level of disdain I felt when in the movies, Frodo told Sam to go, and Sam went. That's the most anti Tolkien thing I've seen in anything so far. At least this series isn't an adaptation. It's essentially fanfic, and that's fine with me.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I liked Episode 5 the most of any so far. I'll say more later.

[Holbytla]

I have no idea if the show is continuing their run of red herrings or not, but the "follow your nose" line from the Stranger , and the whole "gand" talk from the Harfoots is totally meant for us to believe that the "wand elf", or gand (according to the Stoors vernacular for a wooden stick) elf, is clearly meant for us to think of Gandalf. Not even accounting for Gandalfs affinity for Hobbits, those two hints speak volumes. Maybe too much so.

I'm rusty in my Tolkien lore, but either in Letters or the appendices, there is an philological explanation of how that Gandalfs came to be.

It could still be a red herring, but I'm not inclined to think so.

Those two aforementioned hints would go above the heads of an average viewer not knowledgeable in Tolkien lore. So they're either messing with Tolkien savvy people, or they're dropping huge hints. In either case, it's above the heads of a viewer not learned in Tolkien lore.
So what would be the point?

My money is on meteorite
Gandalf. Especially since displaced Tom suggested that he needs to fight the dark wizard and Sauron.

If they bring in an unnamed Blue wizard that leads the fight against Sauron, I'll stop watching at that point.

[Frelga]

Yeah, there's plot twist, and there's taking the mickey out of your audience.

Watched e4. Vague spoilers.

Feels a little like fan service filler? Here are all the things PJ left out of his movies that ROP makers think are cool, let's cram them in. Not that there is anything wrong with fan service.

I did have a headcanon for Tom Bombadil, and that wasn't quite it. The nailed the look, I thought, but the weirdness twists a little in the wrong direction.

The evil wizard and his minions feel a bit 90s children's movie. The Barrow-Downs were pretty good but the Wights themselves looked low budget.

Galadriel introducing the theme of preserving fragile things, good.

The Entwife, very cool design, but what was that all about.

[Snowdog]

Watched Ep 4 & 5 together. After a decent start with the first three, I thought Ep 4 was all over the place I assume they were just 'bridging' from the early episodes to the later episodes with the story snippets. Was definitely the weakest I've seen. Ep 5 got back to Annatar and Celebrimbor and the dwarves, which I think is the core of the series. When they aren't there, the episodes seem weak. Other than things seeming to be rushed (they are running out of episodes) it was reasonably good. Won't spoil it for any who haven't seen Ep5, but I wish they bring Anárion back from 'the west', and give little sister Earian a spanking. She has brouht to me the only somewhat cringy moment so far in S2.

The Barrow-Downs were pretty good but the Wights themselves looked low budget.

Hmm.... I thought the wights would have made a much better Army of the Dead in the PJ movies as opposed to the iridescent magic green ants.