Short Stories

Discussion of fine arts and literature.
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Inanna
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Inanna »

I hope that doesn’t happen soon!
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Frelga
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Frelga »

Heh.
I had a hold on both a book and audiobook, and the book came today. :banana:
Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and lowgrade paranoia.

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Beorhtnoth
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Beorhtnoth »

My favourite short story is an "ultra short" attributed to Ernest Hemmingway, just six words long.

"For sale. Baby shoes. Never worn."

:cry:
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Inanna
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Inanna »

Ohmigod. That’s some short story. A life of pain behind it.
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Beorhtnoth »

It's a slow burner. Six words that, superficially, mean little, but the longer thought about, the more tragic the implications. It gnaws and gnaws away at the reader's imagination.

And only six words.
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Frelga
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Frelga »

I find it interesting that it is usually read as a tragic story, when it could just as easily be about Aunt Edith gifting a toddler with infant sized shoes.

Humans just have a penchant for the dramatic.
Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and lowgrade paranoia.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Frelga wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:05 pm I find it interesting that it is usually read as a tragic story, when it could just as easily be about Aunt Edith gifting a toddler with infant sized shoes.

Humans just have a penchant for the dramatic.
Very true, but I think you ignore context. If it was Aunt Edith, then there is little reason to tell the tale. However, the tale is being told, so we default to inquisitorial mode. Why tell it if it is mundane?

The answer is that it is being told because there is something fundamental to it that is not mundane, and once stripped of the possibility of mundanity, the dawning horror elevates the tale's simplicity to masterpiece.
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Frelga
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Frelga »

In other words, the tale is not in the tale but in the reader's interpretation of the storyteller's motives. See, penchant for the dramatic. :P

I dislike Hemingway, for the record.
Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and lowgrade paranoia.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Possibly.

Humans are, thankfully, more complex than simply being receptacles. Tales are not told in a vacuum; it is expected there will be some purpose in their telling, some meaning. The author (possibly Hemmingway) is, by definition, a part of the author/reader contract. The author knows the reader has expectations, and the reader knows the author writes with purpose. Once that mutuality is recognised, the mundane explanations for the story's meaning wither, to be replaced by understanding that what is written is only a part of the tale. The subsequent impulse is to search for what is not written, and hence the dawning horror.
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Inanna
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Inanna »

Frelga wrote:I find it interesting that it is usually read as a tragic story, when it could just as easily be about Aunt Edith gifting a toddler with infant sized shoes.

Humans just have a penchant for the dramatic.
Gasp. We really do, don’t we.
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Re: Short Stories

Post by elengil »

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra! :poke:
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Inanna
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Inanna »

What?


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Re: Short Stories

Post by Frelga »

elengil wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:20 pm Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra! :poke:
I understood that reference.
:abducted:
Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and lowgrade paranoia.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Inanna
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Inanna »

Spill.

Else I’ll start crying. :P
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elengil
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Re: Short Stories

Post by elengil »

Inanna wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:40 pm Spill.

Else I’ll start crying. :P

Star Trek The Next Generation episode - they meet an alien race that speaks entirely in metaphor. In English :roll: but in metaphor.

So the phrase keeps getting repeated until the main characters figure out what is meant by the phrase. The thing is it's a reference to an old story that may or may not be myth but basically the only way to understand the language is to know what all these references are. Think of a world in the future where everyone speaks in movie quotes and the only way to actually understand what is said is to have the common frame of reference of the movie.

It illustrates quite well the idea that context and a shared paradigm often influence how words are interpreted.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Frelga
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Frelga »

For example.

(the image is from the show, the quote isn't) ;)
Screenshot_20201108-112417.jpg
Screenshot_20201108-112417.jpg (74.39 KiB) Viewed 9424 times
Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and lowgrade paranoia.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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elengil
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Re: Short Stories

Post by elengil »

:rofl:
Exactly.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Inanna
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Inanna »

Wow. And ROFL.
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elengil
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Re: Short Stories

Post by elengil »

Frelga, I just realized that's even more perfect than my example of movie quotes - it's like communicating entirely in memes.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Frelga
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Re: Short Stories

Post by Frelga »

:D It's a little meta, since it requires fluency both in Star Trek references and 2020 political events.
Let the other societies take the skilled, the hopefuls, the ambitious, the self-confident. He’d take the whining resentful ones, the ones with a bellyful of spite and bile, the ones who knew they could make it big if only they’d been given the chance. Give him the ones in which the floods of venom and vindictiveness were dammed up behind thin walls of ineptitude and lowgrade paranoia.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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