Why is TTT the least liked movie?

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
Post Reply
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!
Posts: 49502
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:
Contact Voronwë the Faithful

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Aravar wrote:Osgiliation with the bizarre scene of Frodo offering the Ring to a Nazgûl.
Quite possibly the best scene in all the films. Absolutely brilliant combination of visuals and sound, it is probably the only scene whose brilliance comes from the filmmakers stepping beyond where Tolkien went. As I have oh so unsuccesfully tried to describe in the past, it taps into something deep within the human psyche. Utterly brilliant.

And Frodo absolutely was not offering the Ring to the Nazgûl.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Top
User avatar
Jude
Lán de Grás
Posts: 9212
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:54 pm

Post by Jude »

I agree that it was visually stunning - but it opens up an enormous plothole.
Image
Top
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Post by yovargas »

When V is right, he' right. 8)

Again, why the comments on TTT's non-ending but not never FOTR?
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists

Image
Top
User avatar
narya
chocolate bearer
Posts: 5172
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:27 am
Location: Wishing I could be beachcombing, or hiking, or dragon boating
Contact:
Contact narya

Post by narya »

TTT was always my least favorite book. Though I often reread FOTR, I seldom went on to TTT. Sometimes I'd skip straight to ROTK. So the movie had that strike against it, for me. As a Frodophile, I was really only interested in his story line. When I did read TTT, it was the half with Frodo and Sam.

FOTR had Frodo throughout, whereas TTT kept switching to humans and orcs, in a much too choppy fashion for me. When watching the movie, I sometimes skip the human, ent, and orc parts, leaving too little to satisfy.

I loved the Osgilliation. Not sure why, just a very viceral reaction each time I see it. And I liked Sam's speech.

I liked ROTK movie the least, as Frodo was whimpering and whining too much.

All said, though, they were great movies, and I've seen them at least 2 dozen times each.

EDIT TO ADD:
Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:And Frodo absolutely was not offering the Ring to the Nazgûl.
I thought he was committing suicide (although he might have considered it as giving in to oblivion-of-self) and had quite a lively thread on that on TORC, some time ago.
Top
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Post by yovargas »

One of the things that I love about TTT is that it (finally) makes all the humans soooo fascinating! I'm always left wanting more, specially from Éomer and Grima. Those two rock. 8)
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists

Image
Top
Aravar
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:15 pm

Post by Aravar »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:As I have oh so unsuccesfully tried to describe in the past, it taps into something deep within the human psyche. Utterly brilliant.
Perhaps that's clinching proof that I'm not, in fact, human :) . I've never got the sublimity of the scene.

One a different point, the Rohirrim treatment is bad for me for a reason I will endeavour to explain. The Rohirrim of the book are, as Shippey acknowledges, Anglo-Saxons on horseback. Tolkien was in some way presenting a mythology to England. The shield-wall at the Pelennor in the book resonates for me with the images of that other shield-walll on Senlac Hill in the dying light of an October day 940 years ago.The Rohirrim are not then just characters in a fantasy novel, but mythological representations of a real people, and my people at that.

I cannot say whether they are a good representation of the real English, but they represent the English of folk-memory.

Jackson, to me, wholly fails to convey that sense, and so is diminished in my eyes.It is similar, albeit to a far lesser degree to the reasons why Braveheart will never be my favourite film, and why I have never even tried U-571 or The Patriot.

As Rohan is central to TTT it really spoils the film for me. I think the reason why I much prefer ROTK is because the Rohirrim are so much closer to the book (for reasons which are never entirely made clear). Théoden's speech is spot on (although the subsequent charge isn't).
Top
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!
Posts: 49502
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:
Contact Voronwë the Faithful

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Again, why the comments on TTT's non-ending but not never FOTR?
I think there are a couple of reasons for this. First of all, FOTR does have a satifying climax, with Boromir's brilliant death scene (not to mention the great scene of Aragorn letting Frodo go and then turning to face the Uruks). Secondly, there is certain amount of duplication to the endings of the two films. At the end of FOTR we have Frodo and Sam heading into the dread land of Mordor. At the end of TTT we have ... Frodo and Sam heading into the dread land of Mordor. Its almost like nothing has happened (though of course plenty has). I just think that at the end of FOTR with the breaking of the fellowship there is a certain sense of the end of a chapter. I don't really get that sense from TTT as much, which is why including VOS would have made a big difference, because it would have given more of a sense of the end of the chapter of the battle against Isengard (I should note that I used argue that we really did get that sense from seeing Saruman helpless in the tower, but I don't really feel that way anymore).
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Top
User avatar
vison
Best friends forever
Posts: 11961
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:33 pm
Location: Over there.

Post by vison »

Boromir's brilliant death scene, eh?

He didn't die quick enough for me.

:rage:

Aravar: :bow:
Dig deeper.
Top
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!
Posts: 49502
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:
Contact Voronwë the Faithful

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

:headpat:
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Top
User avatar
Maria
Hobbit
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:45 pm
Location: Missouri

Post by Maria »

I just couldn't stand it when they switched out the horse that played Shadowfax at the end. It blew the whole movie for me.










;)
Top
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Post by yovargas »

:shock:
You got me for a sec, Maria! :D


vison's so cute when she's bashing PJ. :love:


So what do people think? Would TTT be better ending with the VOS? I personally don' see how you could do it. PJ said, and I agree, that following the enourmous climax and tension-relief of Helm's Deep, the movie feels like it needs to wrap up quickly. I find the EE's extended post-Helm's Deep ending too long.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists

Image
Top
User avatar
axordil
Pleasantly Twisted
Posts: 8999
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
Location: Black Creek Bottoms
Contact:
Contact axordil

Post by axordil »

It wouldn't feel too long if the Adventures of Aragorn had been excised from the middle. I didn't mind the warg fight, but the extended diversion with the perfume-ad-style effects didn't do it for me. Nice music though. :D
Top
spd
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:03 pm
Location: Springfield, Ill.

Post by spd »

acronym alert: sorry to sound like a n00b, but what does VOS mean? :scratch: :)
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all."
Top
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Post by yovargas »

I wasn't referring to the movie being to long, just the "ending". After Helm's Deep climax, the wrap-up should be quick, IMO.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists

Image
Top
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:
Contact Primula Baggins

Post by Primula Baggins »

VOS = Voice of Saruman.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Top
User avatar
TheTennisBallKid
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:35 am
Location: The East of East, Fighting Wild Were-worms in The Last Desert
Contact:
Contact TheTennisBallKid

Post by TheTennisBallKid »

And don't forget...

RSWD = Round Spiked Wheelie Dealie (that Saruman is impaled on)




ttbk
Top
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:
Contact Primula Baggins

Post by Primula Baggins »

I think TORC M00bies would have foundered under the weight of verbiage around the time the films came out, if we hadn't cut down on it by using acronyms every other word or so.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Top
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!
Posts: 49502
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:
Contact Voronwë the Faithful

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Sorry, spd. :oops:
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Top
User avatar
TheTennisBallKid
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:35 am
Location: The East of East, Fighting Wild Were-worms in The Last Desert
Contact:
Contact TheTennisBallKid

Post by TheTennisBallKid »

ALINTTTFOTR :shock:


Anyway.

Ax wrote:Nice music though. :D
You've hit on the key to wholeheartedly enjoying these films, they're an epic symphony. ;)


I rank TTT and ROTK about the same, flawed...sublime...and neither quite as satisfying to me as FOTR. In different ways.



ttbk
Top
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Post by yovargas »

TheTennisBallKid wrote: I rank TTT and ROTK about the same, flawed...sublime...and neither quite as satisfying to me as FOTR. In different ways.
But why? :poke:
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists

Image
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Tolkien Movies: The Road Goes Ever On”