Gravity

[Passdagas the Brown]

Also, I think we are on the exact same page in terms of how we appreciate films. I am not analytical about it at all. Rather, I let a film wash over me, and if it feels right, it feels right!

And IMO, the visual storytelling (not necessarily the dialogue) is absolutely key to facilitating that emotional reaction. For me, if a director isn't effectively harnessing the visual language of film, I am left feeling cold.

This is the fundamental reason why I have difficulty with even some of the more textually purist scenes of LOTR and AUJ. IMO, PJ doesn't think too hard about how he sets up his camera, or about eliciting deep emotions through his images. The action thrill is as deep as he cares to go (and he has admitted this via his 'slice of cake' rather than 'slice of life' comment, etc).

But when it comes together visually - in the Shire, in Rohan, and sometimes in Mina's Tirith - PJ's films momentarily grab me (though I am usually quickly thrown back overboard!)

This is at the root of why I enjoy R&B's the Hobbit, while many analytical Tolkien purists I know despise it. To me, it captures the essence of Tolkien on a broad emotional and visual level.

Cuaron, IMO, is the filmmaker equivalent of Tolkien on a visual and thematic level.

His images have a Tolkienian wonder and sometimes melancholy about them, while on a thematic level (which is augmented by his visuals) he is telling the same story of life vs. lifelessness, and hope vs. despair. That, I agree, is a far more important element of Gravity than the nod to evolution, which is really just a tool in reinforcing the theme of "life."

Imagine Cuaron's take on Weathertop, Goblintown, Rivendell, the Grey Havens (shudder), the Paths of the Dead, the Fields of Cormallen, etc etc. I come close to tears just thinking about it!

Ahem. Well, shall I make up some "Cuaron" fan club t-shirts for us?

[Pearly Di]

This is the fundamental reason why I have difficulty with even some of the more textually purist scenes of LOTR and AUJ. IMO, PJ doesn't think too hard about how he sets up his camera, or about eliciting deep emotions through his images. The action thrill as as deep as he cares to go (and he has admitted this via his 'slice of cake' rather than 'slice of life' comment, etc.?

I don't think I can agree that PJ 'doesn't think too hard' about his camera angles. For all its flaws, his LotR was a labour of love and a passionate pet project brought to life. I certainly don't agree that he doesn't think about 'eliciting deep emotions through his images'. You and I might disagree about how successful he was (e.g. I find his Grey Havens too syrupy and sentimental) but I don't doubt for a minute his sincerity and his motives. He clearly thought that a syrupy Grey Havens was the way to go and the way to win audiences over!

The single most Tolkienian scene for me is Arwen at Aragorn's tomb. Amazing. It made me cry. It was pitch-perfect. If only PJ had kept that kind of tone more consistently! But I forgive him much.

This is at the root of why I enjoy R&B's the Hobbit, while many analytical Tolkien purists I know despise it. To me, it captures the essence of Tolkien on a broad emotional and visual level.

Um ... I've not seen it. I did see the Rankin Bass Return of the King, which is and

Imagine Cuaron's take on Weathertop, Goblintown, Rivendell, the Grey Havens (shudder), the Paths of the Dead, the Fields of Cormallen, etc etc. I come close to tears just thinking about it!

Oh, I definitely think that Cuarón would have nailed all of the above. The emotional scenes in his Prisoner of Azkaban move me almost more than anything else in the entire HP series (although the fandom quibbles a lot about Radcliffe's acting, which is a bit hit and miss, even under Cuarón's talented direction). The 'Window on the Past' sequences, echoed by John Williams' beautiful music, for example, are just lovely - the mood is exactly right.

Ahem. Well, shall I make up some "Cuaron" fan club t-shirts for us?

I'll go as far to say that he is now on my list of favourite directors, top of the list of whom is Peter Weir.

[Impenitent]

I find his Grey Havens too syrupy and sentimental.

So syrupy it made my teeth ache, and Frodo's interminable idiot grin made me cringe.

Made me angry, actually, with the disappointment of what was should have been poignant and haunting, and instead made me feel embarrassed.

The single most Tolkienian scene for me is Arwen at Aragorn's tomb.

Absolutely! Bringing it to mind recreates that ineffable, tenebrous melancholy, which even now raises goosebumps.

[Dave_LF]

The single most Tolkienian scene for me is Arwen at Aragorn's tomb.

Absolutely! Bringing it to mind recreates that ineffable, tenebrous melancholy, which even now raises goosebumps.

And because it is a narrated snapshot, which is what most of the Silmarillion amounts to.

[axordil]

The single most Tolkienian scene for me is Arwen at Aragorn's tomb.

Absolutely! Bringing it to mind recreates that ineffable, tenebrous melancholy, which even now raises goosebumps.

And because it is a narrated snapshot, which is what most of the Silmarillion amounts to.

It also illustrates the limits of the form. One scene like that is brilliant. A whole movie would likely act as cinematic Ambien.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I find his Grey Havens too syrupy and sentimental.

So syrupy it made my teeth ache, and Frodo's interminable idiot grin made me cringe.

Made me angry, actually, with the disappointment of what was should have been poignant and haunting, and instead made me feel embarrassed.

My immediate thought was: "How do you mess up such a momentous departure scene that takes place by the ocean as the sun is setting???"

If anything, the Grey Havens was one of those scene that really should have been shot on a location. The ocean shore is such an evocative landscape, and to lather syrup all over it with both the acting and the visuals, is bordering on criminal. It looked, and felt, like a Thomas Kincaid painting come to life.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Absolutely! Bringing it to mind recreates that ineffable, tenebrous melancholy, which even now raises goosebumps.

And because it is a narrated snapshot, which is what most of the Silmarillion amounts to.

It also illustrates the limits of the form. One scene like that is brilliant. A whole movie would likely act as cinematic Ambien.

I think that form and aesthetic, shot throughout the films (though not dominating it) would have ensured LOTR's place in cinematic history. It may still end up being a classic trilogy, but it could have been unassailable!

[Passdagas the Brown]

This is the fundamental reason why I have difficulty with even some of the more textually purist scenes of LOTR and AUJ. IMO, PJ doesn't think too hard about how he sets up his camera, or about eliciting deep emotions through his images. The action thrill as as deep as he cares to go (and he has admitted this via his 'slice of cake' rather than 'slice of life' comment, etc.?

I don't think I can agree that PJ 'doesn't think too hard' about his camera angles. For all its flaws, his LotR was a labour of love and a passionate pet project brought to life. I certainly don't agree that he doesn't think about 'eliciting deep emotions through his images'. You and I might disagree about how successful he was (e.g. I find his Grey Havens too syrupy and sentimental) but I don't doubt for a minute his sincerity and his motives. He clearly thought that a syrupy Grey Havens was the way to go and the way to win audiences over!

The single most Tolkienian scene for me is Arwen at Aragorn's tomb. Amazing. It made me cry. It was pitch-perfect. If only PJ had kept that kind of tone more consistently! But I forgive him much.

This is at the root of why I enjoy R&B's the Hobbit, while many analytical Tolkien purists I know despise it. To me, it captures the essence of Tolkien on a broad emotional and visual level.

Um ... I've not seen it. I did see the Rankin Bass Return of the King, which is and

Imagine Cuaron's take on Weathertop, Goblintown, Rivendell, the Grey Havens (shudder), the Paths of the Dead, the Fields of Cormallen, etc etc. I come close to tears just thinking about it!

Oh, I definitely think that Cuarón would have nailed all of the above. The emotional scenes in his Prisoner of Azkaban move me almost more than anything else in the entire HP series (although the fandom quibbles a lot about Radcliffe's acting, which is a bit hit and miss, even under Cuarón's talented direction). The 'Window on the Past' sequences, echoed by John Williams' beautiful music, for example, are just lovely - the mood is exactly right.

Ahem. Well, shall I make up some "Cuaron" fan club t-shirts for us?

I'll go as far to say that he is now on my list of favourite directors, top of the list of whom is Peter Weir.

I may have misspoken. I do not doubt for a minute PJ's sincerity or motivations. However, he has repeatedly made clear that he is primarily interested in giving the audience an entertaining "action adventure with some intelligence and depth." He follows the Hitchcock-philosophy of giving audiences a "slice of cake" rather than a "slice of life." These are his own words.

Inevitably, beauty and wonder shine through his films because they are a massive collaborative effort full of various artists, and likely because he has his own flashes of inspiration that transcend his general taste. But by his own admission, he's mostly interested in the thrill of cool stuff, not the deeper thematic elements. It seems to be what drives him. Philippa, Fran and others on his team are there for some much-needed balance!

Also, PJ's passion as a filmmaker is clear. I much prefer him to a paint-by-numbers Ron Howard type. But he is less interested in the composition of a scene than he is in getting the camera to go anywhere he wants, in order to provide what he considers a thrilling ride. Again, here I am drawing primarily on his own words.

In short, his intentions are pure, but I just don't feel his style is appropriate for either Tolkien or capturing emotional depth (with a few exceptions, including Arwen at Aragorn's tomb, the funeral of Theodred, Gandalf driving away the Nazgûl on the Pelennor, etc).

And by the way, the R&B Hobbit can be watched for free, in installments, on Youtube. It is far superior to the absolutely horrible R&B The Return of the King, but it's not for everyone. Watched it first when I was a wee boy, so I may be a little biased!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

My opinion of the two R&B production are about equal. I think they are both horrible. Just for some balance.

[yovargas]

I just don't feel his style is appropriate for either Tolkien or capturing emotional depth (with a few exceptions, including Arwen at Aragorn's tomb, the funeral of Theodred, Gandalf driving away the Nazgûl on the Pelennor, etc).

I'm rather glad to hear that you agree he really "got it" in moments here and there even if I'd say he got there more often than you would.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I just don't feel his style is appropriate for either Tolkien or capturing emotional depth (with a few exceptions, including Arwen at Aragorn's tomb, the funeral of Theodred, Gandalf driving away the Nazgûl on the Pelennor, etc).

I'm rather glad to hear that you agree he really "got it" in moments here and there even if I'd say he got there more often than you would.

Oh, there are a number of moments that were bordering on the sublime - those I mentioned earlier are some of my favorites. But there is also the FOTR prologue, most of what takes place in the Shire, the opening Misty Mountains tracking shot in TTT, the Gandalf/Balrog plunge into the water, the lighting of the beacons, Frodo and Sam on the slopes of Mt. Doom, the eagle rescue, many of the bits in Rohan, and a few more I'm probably missing. Unfortunately for me, they are absolutely overwhelmed, in terms of sheer quantity, by the crushing mawkishness of PJ's style in other sequences throughout the films.

I cannot cherry-pick segments of films, unfortunately. If the overall effect is wrong for me, I have difficulty appreciating it.

But AUJ, apart from the "good morning" bit, the dwarf singing scene, and the Battle of Azanulbizar, does not contain even one scene that contends with the beauty of a number of scenes in FOTR, TTT and ROTK. PJ even shoots the landscapes in a very sterile and unimaginative way this time.

I blame a lot of it on dramatically less time spent location shooting - something that concerned me from the beginning.

[yovargas]

But there is also the FOTR prologue, most of what takes place in the Shire, the opening Misty Mountains tracking shot in TTT, the Gandalf/Balrog plunge into the water, the lighting of the beacons, Frodo and Sam on the slopes of Mt. Doom, the eagle rescue, many of the bits in Rohan, and a few more I'm probably missing.

It's been a long while, I should rewatch 'em one of these days.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I might give them another shot, though I envision many minutes of fast-forwarding...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I suspect that if Neil deGrasse Tyson didn't like it, I wouldn't like it either.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/neil- ... on-twitter

[Dave_LF]

But he did. The final tweet in that link is:
"But if you must know, I enjoyed #Gravity very much."

He has some technical nitpicks, but that's not really what the film is about.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I love Neil deGrasse Tyson. He, along with Carl Sagan, were early geek heroes of mine.

But why in the world would you take his advice about a film?

Plus, as Dave_LF said, he actually enjoyed it!

Methinks you have your mind made up that you will dislike Gravity because you disliked Cuaron's Prisoners of Azkhaban.

In other words, you're treating him like I treat Peter Jackson!

Watch it for yourself, and see what happens.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Oh, I was just seeing how long it would take to get a reaction.

Boom!

[Frelga]

I haven't seen the movie, but Tyson had a podcast about it, with the astronaut Michael Massimino as his guest. Both had very good things to say about the science and the film itself. Massimino gave the movie "two thumbs up" for capturing life in space. He was a part of two Hubble servicing missions, he ought to know.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Oh, I was just seeing how long it would take to get a reaction.

Boom!

Once an agent provocateur, always an agent provocateur.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I still hope to the see the film before it leaves the theaters.