Tolkien's Emotional Universe

Seeking knowledge in, of, and about Middle-earth.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Jnyusa wrote:no one would say (I don't think) that characterization as such was Tolkien's strength. The absence of internal life is one of the things for which he has been most strongly criticized by the community of critics who ... criticize such things. ;) But what he does is to take this grand event - the reappearance of The Ring - and reveal the inner mettle of each character only in their relationship to that event, as if that were the only thing that mattered about their lives.

This is a legitimate approach to characterization, I think ... if a character is placed against the backdrop of some Earth-shattering or Middle-Earth-shattering event, then their development in light of that event is both salient and sufficient to the story.
But those characters largely don't develop, Jn, even viewed from outside. What the shattering event reveals is what they already are. It's wonderful, but I don't know if I'd call it development.

Or are you using the word "development" in the sense of gradually revealing or expounding? In that case we're on the same page.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Jnyusa »

Prim wrote:Or are you using the word "development" in the sense of gradually revealing or expounding? In that case we're on the same page.
Yes, I was using it more in this sense ... that is, the author's exposition of the character develops the character for us over the book. For example, with Boromor, his character is filled out more when we get to see him through Faramir's eyes and Denethor's eyes, though Boromir himself is obviously no longer changing.

The hobbits do grow over the course of the book ... they change and they also become increasingly aware of what qualities they already possessed - both legitimate kinds of character development, imo. But there is much less of this than there is of the other thing.
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Post by Impenitent »

How does The Lord of the Rings make me feel?

Well...

In my mid-20s there were a few years when I didn't have a car. I rode my bike to work every day, and on the route was (still is, but I've moved since then) a beautiful park and it was one of the great pleasures of my day to ride through it, summer and winter, appreciating the changing character as the seasons passed. At that same period, I had to get my first pair of glasses - apparently I'd been slightly short-sighted for years but hadn't cottoned on. And the first time I rode through the park wearing my new glasses was an extraordinary experience! No longer were the trees a slightly fuzzy blob; I could see the edges of the leaves, and the petals on the flowers, outlined with light and clarity. It was an emotional revelation! I had had no idea beforehand just how much I had been missing in the details. I was still in complete admiration of the bigger picture, the mass of trees and greenery, by the fragrance of soil and growth and perfume - but I could focus for the first time on the details. I could SEE the details, the minutaie that had passed me by, those things which provide definition and solidity, the uniqueness of each leaf and blade of grass.

Well, LoTR makes me feel like that. Reading LoTR is like putting on a clarifying lens, or looking down a microscope that allows me to really SEE, to focus upon, the important stuff, the stuff that is lost in the general outlines of life. It becomes outlined with light; it becomes monumental, it becomes sublimated into the great Myth which explains what the human condition is about.

Reading LoTR, especially the first time I read it, but the echoes of it are still there every time, reading it is a eucatastrophe. :) It's like chicken soup, a hot water bottle and the comfort of bed when I'm ill; it's like a fireside, hot chocolate and a good book on a dreary, stormy day; it is like a cool breeze and a hammock in the shade when the heat of summer smoulders at midday.

That's how it makes me feel.
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Post by WampusCat »

Yes. :D Exactly.
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Imp, what a fabulous post. :love: Yes, yes, that's it!

Jn, I have trouble experiencing the revealing of character as character development, because I have trouble standing that far back from the characters, even when I'm meant to. While Tolkien is being elliptical and distant and mysterious I'm craning around trying to get a closer look at Aragorn, who keeps ducking behind trees, and trying to figure out what he's thinking and why and what Boromir had for breakfast and what's Gandalf planning. . . . I'm a pretty disorderly reader.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Jnyusa »

Imp, tres cool! :D
Prim wrote:Jn, I have trouble experiencing the revealing of character as character development,
Yes, well I think that when literary critics use the word 'character development' they mean getting inside the head of the character on all fronts and watching him/her respond to events, and Tolkien for sure doesn't do that.
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Post by Frelga »

Jnyusa wrote:Yes, well I think that when literary critics use the word 'character development' they mean getting inside the head of the character on all fronts and watching him/her respond to events, and Tolkien for sure doesn't do that.
And that's what I love about him. :P To me, it's like being there with the characters. Almost everything I know about them is from observing them in action, as I would a real person. As opposed to being told explicitly how Frodo's early loss of parents shaped him into a self-sufficient hobbit who needs to protect those he loves. And yet, what IS revealed of the character's background is perfectly consistent with their actions. You know how Gaffer both shaped Sam's honest gardener's heart and also put him down with his gruff nitpicks. Tolkien just doesn't stop to tell us about all that, so we can feel a player in the game rather than a very well informed fan.
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Post by Primula Baggins »

I think I like something in the middle. The interest of characters for me is how they handle what they've got to deal with in the story. I don't need to know what their old gym teacher has to do with it.

But I do like seeing characters change. That is what I mean by "character development"—not the gradual revelation of a static character, or a detailed explanation of a character's reasons for being what she is, but a character involved in events that compel her to learn something, or overcome something, or discover something inside herself. That's what I love about Frodo and Sam. That's what I miss in Aragorn and Faramir (though as I've said elsewhere, I'm perfectly content with the book as it is).

The hints and details we are given about Sam and his past and the conclusions we can draw from them are perfect, to my mind: subtle but illuminating, if you care to piece them together. We get very few such clues about Aragorn, because he's high, not common, and we are not to be "let in."
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by WampusCat »

What would bother me in other books doesn't bother me in LOTR because the characters are inside of me in a way that they never are in other books. I don't know if I can explain it adequately. It probably has to do with archetypes, or with having absorbed the story at such a young age.

Aragorn doesn't have to change because he walks in my inner landscape, where he interacts with the other residents of that realm. And what results from that interaction is what grows and develops. He was not written as the one-dimensional, perfect king, but as a man with times of self-doubt (at the Falls) and with regret for the pain he inflicted (Éowyn). That's not enough to satisfy literary critics, I know, but it's enough to make him real to me.

Now I feel sure I can't explain it adequately. :)
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Post by solicitr »

Generations of schoolmarms (and critics) have tried to pound it into our heads that the raison d'etre of the bourgeois novel- 'character development' - is the be-all and end-all of fiction. Tolkien (thank God) wasn't concerned with Rules. Coming from his perspective, realizing that his beloved medieval literature was GREAT literature, in a different mode where character's 'insides are on their outsides' (to quote Lewis), he saw nothing wrong with using archetypes (wherein the power of Myth resides, after all), and staying outside (non-hobbit) characters' heads.

Certainly we can appreciate Matisse' genius in conveying Femaleness with a single brush-stroke; why can we not appreciate the heightened mimetic distance Tolkien makes use of? The seven-year-old Túrin: "My father is not afraid, and so I will not be; or like my mother I will be afraid and not show it." What a deft character sketch of all three! And to follow that with "Then it seemed to Sador that Túrin's eyes were not those of a child, and he thought, "Grief is a hone to a hard mind." Oh, my! I'll take those two sentences over any seventeen-page Proustian description of waking up any day.
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Post by solicitr »

Addendum: Túrin of course does develop- or perhaps, devolves. It's awful to realize that the boy who pitied and befriended crippled Sador would, as his last living act, slaughter crippled Brandir.
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Post by yovargas »

solicitr wrote:Generations of schoolmarms (and critics) have tried to pound it into our heads that the raison d'etre of the bourgeois novel- 'character development' - is the be-all and end-all of fiction. Tolkien (thank God) wasn't concerned with Rules. Coming from his perspective, realizing that his beloved medieval literature was GREAT literature, in a different mode where character's 'insides are on their outsides' (to quote Lewis), he saw nothing wrong with using archetypes (wherein the power of Myth resides, after all), and staying outside (non-hobbit) characters' heads.
Honestly - honestly - I don't think it has anything to do with the high-minded analysis going on the past page. I suspect the complaints at their root come from a much simpler place - lots of Tolkien's characters were boring. Of course, boring is subjective, but I really truly think Tolkien's Aragorns and Boromirs are just dull a lot of the time, archetypes or not.
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Post by solicitr »

Reading LoTR is like putting on a clarifying lens, or looking down a microscope that allows me to really SEE, to focus upon, the important stuff, the stuff that is lost in the general outlines of life. It becomes outlined with light; it becomes monumental, it becomes sublimated into the great Myth which explains what the human condition is about.
Bingo! What Tolkien called "Recovery" in On Fairy-stories- the good FS allows the reader to 'recover' a clear vision of the Primary World, by forcing him to look at things afresh.
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Post by Frelga »

yovargas wrote:Honestly - honestly - I don't think it has anything to do with the high-minded analysis going on the past page. I suspect the complaints at their root come from a much simpler place - lots of Tolkien's characters were boring. Of course, boring is subjective, but I really truly think Tolkien's Aragorns and Boromirs are just dull a lot of the time, archetypes or not.
Well, Aragorn might be a bit. Although the whole "All my choices have gone ill" scene was anything but. But Boromir? Boring? The seething mix of discipline and pride, slowly poisoned by the Ring, boring? Indeed sometimes I wonder if we all read the same book. :D
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Post by Faramond »

Jn: I guess my greatest love is reserved for authors who dare to tell very unpopular truths. And, you know, few writers are striving for that. Most strive for verisimilitude. Am I believable? Will my audience enjoy it? And they are fine writers. I enjoy reading them. But I do not love them the way I love Tolkien. Truth almost guarantees bad reviews, unless you are lucky enough to have a cult following that keeps you alive, or lucky enough to be recognized by a few critics who give you prizes and cause people to feel obligated to read you.


What are writers writing when they don't write truth? You mention verisimilitude and characterization, but these aren't alternatives to truth. One may have verisimilitude and truth in the same work, for instance.

Comforting lies?
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Post by Jnyusa »

Faramond wrote:Comforting lies?
Softening the edges. :)
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Post by Faramond »

Jn ---

I'm really interested in how writers go about softening the edges, but perhaps that's best left for another thread.

I can sort of imagine what you mean, but I'd like to hear more thoughts about it, from you or anyone.
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Post by Jnyusa »

Well ... let me give a couple of examples, and if the topic takes us too far afield from Tolkien I can split the thread.

Two writers whom I adore: Eudora Welty and Anne D. LeClaire. Welty has Faulker's shrewd eye for the characters that inhabit the rural South. Anne D. LeClaire is the yankee Eudora Welty. :) Both have stories that are very dark, but they can also be quite studious in their avoidance of casting shadows onto the future.

So, two stories for which I have great personal fondness, but which do 'soften the edges' in ways that Faulkner would not have done (I think).

"The Wide Net," short story by Welty. A young bride in anguish over perceived abuse by her husband threatens to drown herself in the river, and then disappears. The husband sets up a hue and cry, and townspeople gather to drag the river. But as the story progresses, it's clear that no one thinks the girl has actually drowned. She's hiding to punish her husband. Still, it's an excuse to use the net and pull up some fish to eat, it's an excuse for the kids to tag along and see what strange things are in the river, it's a social event. At the end of the day, the husband finds his wife waiting for him at home, and they both go on as if the incident hadn't happened.

Things that Faulkner probably would not have glossed over: If the husband is innocent, picture a future with a women who threatens to drown herself and makes the whole town go hunting for her when she doesn't get what she wants. Or, if the huband really is abusive, picture having no choice but to go on living with him. What kinds of social constellations create this kind of marriage in the first place? And hold it together?

Leaving Eden, novel by LeClaire. A teenage girl's mother had left her family for several years to go to Hollywood, believing she might become a star after having once been employed as Natalie Wood's double. She returns only when she learns that she is dying of lung cancer. As the book opens, the daughter has found her mother only to lose her again to death. The plot then branches in two directions: (1) obvious to the reader but not to the girl, her mother's best friend (with whom she too shares a close relationship) is courting her father; (2) her mother, she believes, had an illigitimate child while in Hollywood and there is a half-sister out there whom she has never met. She steals several thousand dollars from the mother's best friend in order to go to Hollywood and try to find her half-sister. The father and best friend are frantic looking for her. Bunch of stuff happens, the girl is located in Hollywood and brought home, dead mom's best friend marries father, everything is forgiven.

Question Faulkner would not have glossed over: Wouldn't there be long term trust issues if the girl who is now your stepdaughter had stolen thousands of dollars from you and disappeared, causing untold anguish? Wouldn't there be a feeling of provisional-ness to your forgiveness which no real person could overcome? If your dead mom's best friend became your stepmom, could you really avoid having residual feelings of betrayal?

Bringing this back to Tolkien, one of the longest shadows cast in his story (imo) is the permanent separation of Arwen and Elrond. The movie ignored this completely. Now, I'm not bringing this example to criticize the movie, nor would I accept that this theme was eliminated because of time constraints because lots of other Arwen-Elrond stuff was added. There is an Arwen-Elrond conflict in the movie but it is of a different nature from the one in the book. Specifically, the conflict is resolved by the end of the movie, whereas at the end of the book the conflict has only begun. In the book it is a shadow cast on the future, and not something that can be resolved in the reader's heart except to acknowledge that it would go on and on. This is a choice made by the writer, I think, regarding the feeling with which he/she wants to leave the audience.

I sure don't want everything I read to be a reminder that the world is a dark place and all our futures are clouded by past loss and by the threat of new loss! But when a writer does dare to show those aspects of our vista, and show them accurately and deftly of course, I have a special admiration for that writer. It's not the way to become a best seller! It takes a certain audaciousness ... both with respect to the market and with respect to one's own inner life.
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Post by Faramond »

Thanks much, Jn. I understand more now what you meant.

I don't have time at the moment to respond at all, though I want to ... likely when I get back from San Francisco.
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Post by Frelga »

Excellent post, Jn.
An obvious point - in fantasy especially, the hero goes out, is being a hero, and then he can get the girl and half a kingdom and go on happily ever after. Not so here. Not Frodo. Not Sam. Not Arwen. Not Éowyn. Probably not Faramir. There's price to pay for winning, not just losing. (and some people say Tolkien's characters don't change :P)
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