The Music of the Hobbit (Now with possible Spoilers)

[Passdagas the Brown]

Elen,

One could equally say the comments about "New Age" and my tastes being likened to a relaxation CD are not exactly endearing and veering in that direction...

One could say that, but one shouldn't. Especially because in the case of the "relaxation CD" comment, I was talking about how I perceive the song [which only has to do with my opinion - hence the phrase "I think" - and has nothing to do with how others might perceive it, which might be different and perfectly valid for them]. I imagine the same thing goes for V's New Age-ish remark. Perhaps I'm an odd duck, but I honestly have difficulty understanding why people are offended by the opinions of others on art, music, entertainment, etc. Taste is subjective. End of story!

But I agree that your comment to SV about having good taste was not meant mean-spiritedly, as Al perhaps suggested. It is a very common thing to say (akin to the phrase "great minds think alike") and is usually a means of connecting with someone, as opposed to excluding others.

IMO, this is an unfortunate and unnecessary detour in an otherwise friendly thread. Can we simply start assuming that people are speaking about their own opinions, when discussing the arts? Or anything else for that matter? It's more pleasant (and more truthful) that way.

[Smaug's voice]

Since none of us know what "Elvish" is I guess this is a pretty subjective discussion.

Yes please. What I meant was obviously song that sounds "Elvish" to my ear and not V's (which may very well be Death Metal ).

And Elen, we very well know how good our tastes are in all forms.

[Elentári]

Yes, I know those were simply people's opinions and I did indeed choose to take them as that, (as can be seen from my initial post yesterday,) despite the fact I found them demoralizing.

But obviously I was glad to find someone else who enjoys Enya as much as I do!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It was obviously me...though Al has apparently chosen to take it differently to how it was meant. Surely it is a standard convention to comment on someone having good taste when you discover they like the same things as you? I was certainly not meaning that every one who does not like the song has bad taste. One could equally say the comments about "New Age" and my tastes being likened to a relaxation CD are not exactly endearing and veering in that direction...

It is difficult for me to believe that anyone could take your lighthearted comment to SV in a negative way, but I guess that, unless Al explains differently, that is what he meant, because there doesn't seem to be anything else in this discussion that he could have been referring to.

In any event, I'm sorry that you found my differing opinion demoralizing. Such was certainly not my intention, as I think you know. Still, I will try to be more careful in the future.

[Elentári]

It's all good, AFAIC!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

For the record, I have great respect for your opinion, and for SV's, even though I don't always have exactly the same taste in every.

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[Dave_LF]

You guys got my hopes up when I saw how many new posts this thread had.

Anyway, in the Sons of Durin clip, starting around 0:50 and continuing basically to the end of the sample, there is a sequence that strongly resembles a brassier version of the one that plays behind Théoden's pep talk on the Pelennor (The Fields of Pelennor, also at 0:50 oddly enough). There are obvious potential thematic connections between the two depending on exactly how the story plays out (a fallen king leading his people in a final, hopeless effort in which he redeems himself by giving his life for victory). Nevertheless, whenever I notice these things, I have to wonder whether Shore is making a deliberate allusion or if it's just that there are only so many combinations of notes that effectively create some target mood and that in a body of work this size you're bound to have similar-sounding sequences pop up sooner or later purely by coincidence.

Another one I mentioned last year (I think) is that Thorin's theme plays when Arwen is mourning at Aragorn's tomb (Evenstar, 2:54).

[Passdagas the Brown]

In any event, I'm sorry that you found my differing opinion demoralizing. Such was certainly not my intention, as I think you know. Still, I will try to be more careful in the future.

Ditto, now that I think about it. I have a slight blind-spot about the potentially demoralizing effects of my strong opinions on the arts, and will try to be conscious of that in the future. Apologies to Elen, SV, Alatar or anyone else that may have been discomforted by my comment.

[Elentári]

No problem, PtB. I have to admit that my responses and reactions to many things - not just music and the arts, are often simply instinctive...and whilst some of you are very good at articulating why you like or dislike something, I can find that hard. (Probably my S/F personality!) It's like when you ask a kid why they like something, and the response is "I just do!" It feels right, or it feels wrong... I love reading other people's posts on how they see or understand something, and sometimes they are able to put into words what I am feeling, and that helps me to understand why it "felt right" (- or wrong!) to me as well. And of course, sometimes I completely disagree, however articulate the point may be being made!


Dave - what you have discovered is fascinating, but I'm afraid I haven't listened to anything other than the 30 second clips, apart from the Boyd song, so far, so I'm unable to concur or disagree, yet!

[TheTennisBallKid]

My feelings on May It Be used to lean towards the "New Age Elvish Spa Muzak" side of things, but it has grown on me over the years. I'd still rank the songs something like this however:
Into The West>In Dreams(Shore's "Hobbit Hymn", which often seems forgotten)>Use Well The Days>Gollum's Song>May It Be.


The Hobbit songs barely even register on my radar, I'm afraid. I listened to the 90 second clip of the Billy Boyd song and it feels they're trying too hard to do something like, but different from, Into The West.

I wish they had kept Shore involved with the songwriting side of things, as that allowed more of an organic growth of the song out of the score.

Of course, I have "Yub Nub" in my signature, so my taste in movie songs may be suspect.

Avoiding any of the other clips for now.

I don't mean this as a slight, but it gives several of them the flavor of a mid-century Old-Testament grand drama--I keep imagining films like Ben Hur and The Ten Commandments.

Since, unlike PTB, I consider those scores one of the high-water points in film scoring, I would never consider that a slight!

[Alatar]

I also love "In Dreams", and would probably put it ahead of all the others, bar "Into The West". "Use Well the Days" feels clumsy to me, like they're trying to force a mishmash of lyrics into a tune that doesn't fit. In general, I find that off-putting. Same with Neil Finn's "Song of the Lonely Mountain". Its neither Tolkien, nor a song in its own right. "I See Fire", "Gollum's Song" and "May It Be" avoid that trap, so I can listen to all of them, but "I See Fire" would probably be my favourite of those three, with "Gollum's song close behind and "May it Be" way back in the distance. "The Last Goodbye" and "Into the West" manage to skirt this danger by having just enough Tolkien lyrics, well matched to a tune that works.

Of course, honourable mention has to go to "Bilbo's Last Song" as probably the best "End Credits" Tolkien in my opinion.



Day is ended, dim my eyes,
but journey long before me lies.
Farewell, friends! I hear the call.
The ship's beside the stony wall.
Foam is white and waves are grey;
beyond the sunset leads my way.
Foam is salt, the wind is free;
I hear the rising of the Sea.

Farewell, friends! The sails are set,
the wind is east, the moorings fret.
Shadows long before me lie,
beneath the ever-bending sky,
but islands lie behind the Sun
that I shall raise ere all is done;
lands there are to west of West,
where night is quiet and sleep is rest.

Guided by the Lonely Star,
beyond the utmost harbour-bar,
I'll find the heavens fair and free,
and beaches of the Starlit Sea.
Ship, my ship! I seek the West,
and fields and mountains ever blest.
Farewell to Middle-earth at last.
I see the Star above my mast!

[Dave_LF]

A music video for "The Last Goodbye" has been posted. It freely mixes footage from behind the scenes, all 3 LotR films, and all 3 Hobbit films (include new B5A footage):
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/11/21/t ... sic-video/

Not the greatest video in the world, IMO (the sequence of images is seemingly random, with no apparent connections between the visuals and the words being sung in most of the time), but still interesting to see.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm inclined to agree that a lot of seems random, but it was fun to watch, and I like the song a lot. It was interesting to spot some new material from BotFA, though I didn't really watch it carefully enough to note what it was.

[Elentári]

Dwalin, Thorin, Fili and Kili at Ravenhill...looks like they will fight in the showdown battle there against Azog and Bolg.

Nice song, great video....

[Elentári]

Dwalin, Thorin, Fili and Kili at Ravenhill...looks like they will fight in the showdown battle there against Azog and Bolg.

I think that has all but been confirmed, hasn't it?

Well, we know Fili, Kili and Thorin will be at Ravenhill, but it's the first I've heard/seen about Dwalin being there as well..

And, uhm, why the magazine covers in the music thread?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Uhm, because I was confused? I'll move them.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here's a high def version of the video:

[Passdagas the Brown]

I was hoping that Thorin, Fili and Kili would fall amidst a sea of orcs, but it looks like they will go down in mano-a-manos with the main big bads. Could be fine, but this might have been a great place to break with formula.

[Elentári]

I was hoping that Thorin, Fili and Kili would fall amidst a sea of orcs, but it looks like they will go down in mano-a-manos with the main big bads. Could be fine, but this might have been a great place to break with formula.

there was quite a rabid poster elsewhere screaming that it would be bad-film-making for Jackson to have any one other than Thorin take down Azog, etc... Shame really, I would have said it was brave film-making to do the unexpected...

[Elentári]

Full version of Ironfoot!

http://whiteharbor.co.vu/post/103307876 ... -the-botfa

Glorious 'pipes and some Dwarven vocals! Does sound like it might be a credits 'suite' of themes, though...