Heathens
- Impenitent
- Throw me a rope.
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What a glory of colour!
ETA (got over-excited and hit submit before I'd finished. )
When I was pregnant with my youngest I was required to have a late amniocentesis and while waiting for the results was really in an agony of fear that there was a problem.
We lived in an apartment at that time, on the top floor, and one night I noticed the cat out on the balcony behaving strangely. I sat up to look more carefully - it was an owl! a beautiful barn owl, sitting on the rail, staring in while the cat stared at it! The balcony door was open; the light was on in the sitting room; the owl flew inside. It landed for a moment on the back of a chair and then went into a panic and started to fly around the room. I had to turn the lights off indoors and it made its way out of the balcony door again.
But I knew with complete certainty from that point on that the results of the test would be just fine. I had not another moment's anxiety about it. That owl came to tell me that; I just knew it.
Ethel, I don't believe it; but I still know it is true.
ETA (got over-excited and hit submit before I'd finished. )
When I was pregnant with my youngest I was required to have a late amniocentesis and while waiting for the results was really in an agony of fear that there was a problem.
We lived in an apartment at that time, on the top floor, and one night I noticed the cat out on the balcony behaving strangely. I sat up to look more carefully - it was an owl! a beautiful barn owl, sitting on the rail, staring in while the cat stared at it! The balcony door was open; the light was on in the sitting room; the owl flew inside. It landed for a moment on the back of a chair and then went into a panic and started to fly around the room. I had to turn the lights off indoors and it made its way out of the balcony door again.
But I knew with complete certainty from that point on that the results of the test would be just fine. I had not another moment's anxiety about it. That owl came to tell me that; I just knew it.
Ethel, I don't believe it; but I still know it is true.
I agree about the rift, but then it makes sense to have a guiding spirit that is smarter than oneself. At least I've known some humans who would never have graduated from a nudibranch high school.Though I feel more attraction to some animals than others, the rift between human and animal intelligence is so great that I cannot imagine a kinship or guiding spirit in eagles, wolves, or even my favorite, the nudibranch.
Ethel, beautiful story about your brother.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- truehobbit
- Cute, cuddly and dangerous to know
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What Cerin said!Cerin wrote:I just wanted to quietly say that this does not describe the mentality or experience of my Christianity. It is in fact, the opposite. If I had to choose one word to describe the feeling of my Christianity, it would be -- freedom. Freedom from guilt, from fear, from burden. 'His yoke is easy, and His burden is light'.not prisoner in the moral corset that has been Christianity in my humble opinion for centuries – but at the same time living with the eternal fear of being damned
Sorry, I haven't caught up, and I'm not going to, but I wanted to respond to Jewel's response to me.
Jewel, I have (of course) no real life experience with use of either the word "heathen" or "gentile" - on the few occasions I get to speak English in real life, there never has been conversation about such things.
But "gentile" has the same meaning - i.e. set of meanings - as "heathen", and even if - which is possible, but which I don't know either way - it has not taken on quite as strong a pejorative connotation as "heathen", it still might be used with discriminatory undertones.
Ok, I guess you might say almost every word can be used like that - but I think for me the question is more general.
If I use a special word to describe everybody in the world who is not "one of us", to me this alone carries negative implications. I'm sure I can't explain that properly, but it's just a fact that being called a "gentile" makes me feel uneasy.
I also think we wouldn't use either the word "heathen" or "infidel" in polite conversation, so why is "gentile" ok?
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
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- This is Rome
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Hobby,
I, like Ethel, am another Gentile who is completely comfortable with the word. Irrespective of past usage, it's almost always used, now, as a synonym for non-Jew.
If I use a special word to describe everybody in the world who is not "one of us", to me this alone carries negative implications.
To me, it is ok as long as it is being done by a minority, whether or not one to which I belong. This is my own (emotional) feeling, and I'm certainly not saying you should share it. I think it's because for me, the potential for such a word to be used with negative implications is less troubling to me when it comes from a minority than when it comes from the majority.
But then, I really think it comes down to the intent behind the world. For example, homosexual and heterosexual are facially neutral words, aren't they? But the "Religious Right" has used "homosexual" with such loaded pejorative intent that I know queer people who are now shying away from it altogether, preferring "gay" or "queer" instead. On the flip side, I have heard queer people use "hetero" with such hatred in their voices that it becomes a loaded, negative word even though it is facially not so.
So, too, I think it is with words like "gentile" or even "heathen". I could probably have a conversation with you here beginning with, "We Gentiles..." that might leave you feeling more comfortable with the word than if, say, you heard Jews using it in the context of a discussion of the Aleinu prayer, which traditionally begins (translated), "It is our duty to praise the Master of all....for He has not made us like the nations of the lands and has not emplaced us like the families of the earth; for He has not assigned our portion like theirs nor our lot like all their multitudes." Not that pejorative meaning is intended by all, or most, Jews who use the traditional formulation of the prayer, but you might feel more uneasy with the word "Gentile" in that context.
I, like Ethel, am another Gentile who is completely comfortable with the word. Irrespective of past usage, it's almost always used, now, as a synonym for non-Jew.
If I use a special word to describe everybody in the world who is not "one of us", to me this alone carries negative implications.
To me, it is ok as long as it is being done by a minority, whether or not one to which I belong. This is my own (emotional) feeling, and I'm certainly not saying you should share it. I think it's because for me, the potential for such a word to be used with negative implications is less troubling to me when it comes from a minority than when it comes from the majority.
But then, I really think it comes down to the intent behind the world. For example, homosexual and heterosexual are facially neutral words, aren't they? But the "Religious Right" has used "homosexual" with such loaded pejorative intent that I know queer people who are now shying away from it altogether, preferring "gay" or "queer" instead. On the flip side, I have heard queer people use "hetero" with such hatred in their voices that it becomes a loaded, negative word even though it is facially not so.
So, too, I think it is with words like "gentile" or even "heathen". I could probably have a conversation with you here beginning with, "We Gentiles..." that might leave you feeling more comfortable with the word than if, say, you heard Jews using it in the context of a discussion of the Aleinu prayer, which traditionally begins (translated), "It is our duty to praise the Master of all....for He has not made us like the nations of the lands and has not emplaced us like the families of the earth; for He has not assigned our portion like theirs nor our lot like all their multitudes." Not that pejorative meaning is intended by all, or most, Jews who use the traditional formulation of the prayer, but you might feel more uneasy with the word "Gentile" in that context.
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
- truehobbit
- Cute, cuddly and dangerous to know
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tp, I think you can't use the word on yourself - it's meant to be used by those inside the group on those outside the group. Any other usage just doesn't make sense. You can say you don't mind being called a gentile, but you can't say "I am a Gentile" unless you eitherI, like Ethel, am another Gentile who is completely comfortable with the word.
- feel your own distinctiveness from those who are not Gentile and humbly accept that you are not among that elite group
- are trying to mock the idea that there is a split of the world into not Gentile/Gentile (for comparison, try saying "we infidels" without a wink - for me this is hardly possible)
- accept the originally downgrading word and use it on yourself in order to give it a new, proud meaning, the way some blacks call themselves n*gger or the way Ethel (if I get her first post correctly) calls herself "heathen".
None of these is acceptable in normal (i.e. non-confrontational) conversation to me.
I don't think that just because a group is a minority they are more ok to use discriminatory terminology and create a "one of us"/not "one of us" dichotomy towards the rest of the world.To me, it is ok as long as it is being done by a minority,
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
Hm, well, can't agree with this. I can't remember what thread it was in, but I posted somewhere about my father telling me that beaches in the area where he grew up were posted "White Gentiles Only". Setting aside the horror of the concept, it seems clear that here's a case where 'Gentile' is considered clearly superior - as is 'White.'truehobbit wrote:tp, I think you can't use the word on yourself - it's meant to be used by those inside the group on those outside the group. Any other usage just doesn't make sense. You can say you don't mind being called a gentile, but you can't say "I am a Gentile" unless you eitherI, like Ethel, am another Gentile who is completely comfortable with the word.
- feel your own distinctiveness from those who are not Gentile and humbly accept that you are not among that elite group
- are trying to mock the idea that there is a split of the world into not Gentile/Gentile (for comparison, try saying "we infidels" without a wink - for me this is hardly possible)
- accept the originally downgrading word and use it on yourself in order to give it a new, proud meaning, the way some blacks call themselves n*gger or the way Ethel (if I get her first post correctly) calls herself "heathen".
(Perhaps there are different nuances of meaning in how the word is used in German vs English?)
Heathen describes me better than Pagan. I started out completely non-religious, turned atheist, mellowed to agnostic, and finally opened my mind and started learning!
I've read a lot of books about Wicca, and energy healing and psychic stuff and dreams and kept the ideas that work for me. "Magic" is real, in that our intent helps shape the world around us in non-standard ways.
I don't worship anything... it just doesn't seem necessary. I feel that anything I accomplish on this plane is a result of the power of my higher self on this dimension. If I worshipped anything, I would be worshipping myself. And that doesn't make sense to me.
I think being a Pagan requires that element of worship, so that's why I feel Heathen applies better.
I don't know what the forces I use are.... just that they work! Just this weekend, we were out driving and a terrible hailstorm started around us. I didn't say or physically do anything, just did everything mentally necessary to put protective shields over us and our car. The hail was pounding, bouncing everywhere and I kept up that image of protective shields in my mind until it stopped.
We had no hail damage.
Yesterday, in the city, the customers for the auto glass shops were lined up on the street outside, and the techs were installing new windows for people in the parking lots. My co-worker has hail pocks all over her truck's hood and roof. We SAW hail bouncing off our hood like crazy, but the car was undamaged. At one point, my husband yelled over to me, "SHIELDS!" because he knows I'm into this stuff, and I yelled back, "I AM!" (the hail was LOUD!) and "HOPE THE WINDSHIELD DOESN'T BREAK!" There was golf ball size hail on the ground. The car was fine.
Now, I know, there could be any number of rational explanations for what happened... but why bother? If what I did, didn't help-- then no harm done. If it DID help, then we just saved ourselves another trip to the body shop.
That's the sort of thing I see time and time again when I use "magic". Real world cool things that could have a rational explanation... but that I choose to believe I had a hand in.
Is it magic? Was it telekinesis? Was it weather control? Was it luck? Who can tell? In the absence of real data, one just has to pick their favorite theory and go with it.
I've read a lot of books about Wicca, and energy healing and psychic stuff and dreams and kept the ideas that work for me. "Magic" is real, in that our intent helps shape the world around us in non-standard ways.
I don't worship anything... it just doesn't seem necessary. I feel that anything I accomplish on this plane is a result of the power of my higher self on this dimension. If I worshipped anything, I would be worshipping myself. And that doesn't make sense to me.
I think being a Pagan requires that element of worship, so that's why I feel Heathen applies better.
I don't know what the forces I use are.... just that they work! Just this weekend, we were out driving and a terrible hailstorm started around us. I didn't say or physically do anything, just did everything mentally necessary to put protective shields over us and our car. The hail was pounding, bouncing everywhere and I kept up that image of protective shields in my mind until it stopped.
We had no hail damage.
Yesterday, in the city, the customers for the auto glass shops were lined up on the street outside, and the techs were installing new windows for people in the parking lots. My co-worker has hail pocks all over her truck's hood and roof. We SAW hail bouncing off our hood like crazy, but the car was undamaged. At one point, my husband yelled over to me, "SHIELDS!" because he knows I'm into this stuff, and I yelled back, "I AM!" (the hail was LOUD!) and "HOPE THE WINDSHIELD DOESN'T BREAK!" There was golf ball size hail on the ground. The car was fine.
Now, I know, there could be any number of rational explanations for what happened... but why bother? If what I did, didn't help-- then no harm done. If it DID help, then we just saved ourselves another trip to the body shop.
That's the sort of thing I see time and time again when I use "magic". Real world cool things that could have a rational explanation... but that I choose to believe I had a hand in.
Is it magic? Was it telekinesis? Was it weather control? Was it luck? Who can tell? In the absence of real data, one just has to pick their favorite theory and go with it.
- Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
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Around here a lot of cars have a chrome, fish-shaped design on the back, meant to signify Jesus. Some of those fish have the word "Jesus" inside, some have Greek letters.
Then, some of the fish designs have feet and inside is the word "Darwin".
The librarian at our local branch has a fish outline with feet and a little sort of antenna on top and inside is the word "Aliens".
Today I saw a new one. Here was the outline of a fish, and inside, the word "Gefilte".
Then, some of the fish designs have feet and inside is the word "Darwin".
The librarian at our local branch has a fish outline with feet and a little sort of antenna on top and inside is the word "Aliens".
Today I saw a new one. Here was the outline of a fish, and inside, the word "Gefilte".
Dig deeper.
You know, the Darwin fish made me smile the first time I saw it, and the Gefilte fish is amusing too... but... that fish is a sacred symbol to a lot of Christians. I can't help cringing a little when I see one, because I suspect the Darwin fish would be perceived by some as genuinely hurtful and insulting.
Live and let live is my motto. Also, whatever gets you through the night. I really respect the power of religion. I have seen it change lives. I suspect I would be a happier person if I were able to believe, but for me that just doesn't feel like something I have any control over.
Alert about the rest of this post - it's about other eerie things that happened around the time of my brother's death. I thought Maria and narya might find it interesting, but I suspect a lot of others might not - hence the alert. It's long, too, because there was a LOT of strange stuff.
The two weeks following my brother's death were the spookiest time of my life. It was almost as if his beliefs in meanings and portents had leaked into my world.
I had to drive to Bisbee, Arizona for the funeral - about 700 miles from the town where I live. For some reason I chose a route that included a long stretch of Arizona highway 191. It looked like a reasonable route on the map, but it turned out to include an extremely mountainous region. It was night by the time I got into the mountains. About an hour south of the last town of any size, the road was blockaded because of a forest fire. I had to turn around and go back to where I could catch another highway and devise an alternate route.
The mountain road had lots of signs with pictures of elk. I remember wondering if this were the road where my brother was killed - the stories had been a little garbled and at that point I had no clear idea where it happened. But it seemed unlikely. I passed a town called Nutrioso twice - south and back north again. As it turned out, it was just outside Nutrioso that the accident happened. So yes, I drove right past where he was killed, without knowing it at the time. It was spooky.
I decided to stop for the night in Springerville, the town where several highways met. I was exhausted, having basically not slept the night before. But I had my dog with me - I thought it quite likely that we'd have to just curl up in the car. Hardly any motels allow pets. But the one I tried, did. I was amazed. I nearly wept with gratitude. It really felt like a guardian angel was watching over me. Later I found out that my brother's body was lying in a mortuary in Springerville - that was a little spooky too.
Another weird thing. At his funeral I spoke with the friend who was riding with my brother that night. She was fine - he had been riding in front and she had time to avoid the elk. But she told me that the first person who stopped after the accident actually knew Ron. Recognized him. This was some 500 miles from where he lived. It was a nurse with whom he had once given a seminar on traditional and spiritual medicine. Another, um, coincidence.
Something rather wonderful happened too. Talking to my two other brothers during that terrible night we got the news, we discussed our brother's daughter, from whom he had been completely estranged in life. It was I who insisted, "We have to tell Natalie." My brother had split from her mother when Natalie was about 6 months old, and basically never seen her since. None of the rest of us understood this. Our mother had kept in touch with Natalie over the years; we had all met her; she was a very attractive and intelligent child. I hadn't seen her since she was 12, but I had been exchanging emails and pictures with her for the last several months. She seemed really nice. She was very eager to make contact with her father, and the rest of us were determined to arrange it. Our brother made it hard, though. At intervals one or another of us would have the Natalie Talk with him. He would listen in silence, then change the subject. I think he was just embarrassed really. How tragic that that kept him from her.
It wasn't that he disliked the very idea of her. He seemed pleased to hear that she was doing well and so forth. Once my son was using my brother's computer while we were visiting and found a picture of a pretty young woman on his desk. He asked, "Who's this?" My brother told him it was his daughter. My son was astounded. Later he ranted to me, "How can he have a daughter I didn't even know about? She's my cousin! Where is she?"
Sorry for the long backstory. Well, I called Natalie the morning after Ron was killed. It was excrutiating. When she understood who was calling, she was absolutely delighted. Ready for a nice, long natter. At first she couldn't grasp that the father she had wanted to meet for so long was dead. Several times she said, "You mean one of my uncles was killed?" Finally she got it. Long silence. Then she said, "Is it okay if I come to the funeral?"
Of course it was okay. More than okay. And she did come, with her nice young husband. She turned out to be an absolutely beautiful young woman, pleasant and soft-spoken, with a Mona Lisa smile. We all adored her. She felt like family at once. They both did. Another spooky thing was how similar her husband's sense of humor was to Ron's - he made a couple of jokes that sounded exactly like something Ron would say. We spent the evening after the funeral laughing together. We're that kind of family. A lot of the laughter had a crazy edge, but it's what we do. The weird thing is, it turned out that's what they do, too.
Right after the funeral Natalie quietly said, "I missed a lot." I hugged her and said, 'You did. But he did too."
Ten days after my brother's death, a beloved friend in California died of cancer. This was not unexpected - he had stage 4 melanoma. I couldn't go to the funeral because of all the time I had taken off for my brother. Anyway, I had gone to visit several times after he been diagnosed. Got to see him and talk with him while he was alive. The last conversation I had with him was on the telephone. He was telling me what he wanted done with his ashes, and how we all had to be strong for his wife, our friend. It was... hard. Good, but hard.
I had let my mail pile up while I was in Arizona. I went through it later that day, after hearing about Mike's death. And there was an envelope with his handwriting. That just about did me in. I remember lying on the floor, howling and sobbing. I finally pulled myself together enough to open the envelope. It was a card from my dying friend, offering sympathy on the death of my brother.
I knew he chose the card himself - the print was by his favorite artist, Tom Killion:
Here's what he wrote:
I'm in awe of his generosity of spirit. He's my touchstone in a way. He was for a lot of people - that one person you know who just shines with goodness and kindness. Who made other people better just because they knew him. And he sent me a message - of love, comfort and understanding - from beyond the grave.
It was the worst summer of my life. Yet there was a lot of beauty. So that's my heathen story of - take your pick - interesting coincidences, or meaningful associations.
Live and let live is my motto. Also, whatever gets you through the night. I really respect the power of religion. I have seen it change lives. I suspect I would be a happier person if I were able to believe, but for me that just doesn't feel like something I have any control over.
Alert about the rest of this post - it's about other eerie things that happened around the time of my brother's death. I thought Maria and narya might find it interesting, but I suspect a lot of others might not - hence the alert. It's long, too, because there was a LOT of strange stuff.
The two weeks following my brother's death were the spookiest time of my life. It was almost as if his beliefs in meanings and portents had leaked into my world.
I had to drive to Bisbee, Arizona for the funeral - about 700 miles from the town where I live. For some reason I chose a route that included a long stretch of Arizona highway 191. It looked like a reasonable route on the map, but it turned out to include an extremely mountainous region. It was night by the time I got into the mountains. About an hour south of the last town of any size, the road was blockaded because of a forest fire. I had to turn around and go back to where I could catch another highway and devise an alternate route.
The mountain road had lots of signs with pictures of elk. I remember wondering if this were the road where my brother was killed - the stories had been a little garbled and at that point I had no clear idea where it happened. But it seemed unlikely. I passed a town called Nutrioso twice - south and back north again. As it turned out, it was just outside Nutrioso that the accident happened. So yes, I drove right past where he was killed, without knowing it at the time. It was spooky.
I decided to stop for the night in Springerville, the town where several highways met. I was exhausted, having basically not slept the night before. But I had my dog with me - I thought it quite likely that we'd have to just curl up in the car. Hardly any motels allow pets. But the one I tried, did. I was amazed. I nearly wept with gratitude. It really felt like a guardian angel was watching over me. Later I found out that my brother's body was lying in a mortuary in Springerville - that was a little spooky too.
Another weird thing. At his funeral I spoke with the friend who was riding with my brother that night. She was fine - he had been riding in front and she had time to avoid the elk. But she told me that the first person who stopped after the accident actually knew Ron. Recognized him. This was some 500 miles from where he lived. It was a nurse with whom he had once given a seminar on traditional and spiritual medicine. Another, um, coincidence.
Something rather wonderful happened too. Talking to my two other brothers during that terrible night we got the news, we discussed our brother's daughter, from whom he had been completely estranged in life. It was I who insisted, "We have to tell Natalie." My brother had split from her mother when Natalie was about 6 months old, and basically never seen her since. None of the rest of us understood this. Our mother had kept in touch with Natalie over the years; we had all met her; she was a very attractive and intelligent child. I hadn't seen her since she was 12, but I had been exchanging emails and pictures with her for the last several months. She seemed really nice. She was very eager to make contact with her father, and the rest of us were determined to arrange it. Our brother made it hard, though. At intervals one or another of us would have the Natalie Talk with him. He would listen in silence, then change the subject. I think he was just embarrassed really. How tragic that that kept him from her.
It wasn't that he disliked the very idea of her. He seemed pleased to hear that she was doing well and so forth. Once my son was using my brother's computer while we were visiting and found a picture of a pretty young woman on his desk. He asked, "Who's this?" My brother told him it was his daughter. My son was astounded. Later he ranted to me, "How can he have a daughter I didn't even know about? She's my cousin! Where is she?"
Sorry for the long backstory. Well, I called Natalie the morning after Ron was killed. It was excrutiating. When she understood who was calling, she was absolutely delighted. Ready for a nice, long natter. At first she couldn't grasp that the father she had wanted to meet for so long was dead. Several times she said, "You mean one of my uncles was killed?" Finally she got it. Long silence. Then she said, "Is it okay if I come to the funeral?"
Of course it was okay. More than okay. And she did come, with her nice young husband. She turned out to be an absolutely beautiful young woman, pleasant and soft-spoken, with a Mona Lisa smile. We all adored her. She felt like family at once. They both did. Another spooky thing was how similar her husband's sense of humor was to Ron's - he made a couple of jokes that sounded exactly like something Ron would say. We spent the evening after the funeral laughing together. We're that kind of family. A lot of the laughter had a crazy edge, but it's what we do. The weird thing is, it turned out that's what they do, too.
Right after the funeral Natalie quietly said, "I missed a lot." I hugged her and said, 'You did. But he did too."
Ten days after my brother's death, a beloved friend in California died of cancer. This was not unexpected - he had stage 4 melanoma. I couldn't go to the funeral because of all the time I had taken off for my brother. Anyway, I had gone to visit several times after he been diagnosed. Got to see him and talk with him while he was alive. The last conversation I had with him was on the telephone. He was telling me what he wanted done with his ashes, and how we all had to be strong for his wife, our friend. It was... hard. Good, but hard.
I had let my mail pile up while I was in Arizona. I went through it later that day, after hearing about Mike's death. And there was an envelope with his handwriting. That just about did me in. I remember lying on the floor, howling and sobbing. I finally pulled myself together enough to open the envelope. It was a card from my dying friend, offering sympathy on the death of my brother.
I knew he chose the card himself - the print was by his favorite artist, Tom Killion:
Here's what he wrote:
I include the misspelled words and odd syntax because... the melanoma had metastacized to his brain, you see. This was a brilliant man, a scientist, a beloved teacher. Walking around the UC Davis campus with him was like being with a celebrity - young people kept dashing up and greeting him. He taught Animal Physiology 101 in the vet school. I had known him 20 years or so; he was a second father to my son. He won every game he ever played. I never knew him to make an error in spelling or grammar in all that time. But he was having trouble with words by then - speech had become difficult. He was only a week away from his own death when he wrote it. But he chose a pretty card and made the effort to write the words that no longer came naturally to him.Pam just let me know about your brother. What the tradgedy. I hope his recent visit brings you some peace. My sincere condleces to the rest of your family. Thinking of you Jan. Love, Mike.
I'm in awe of his generosity of spirit. He's my touchstone in a way. He was for a lot of people - that one person you know who just shines with goodness and kindness. Who made other people better just because they knew him. And he sent me a message - of love, comfort and understanding - from beyond the grave.
It was the worst summer of my life. Yet there was a lot of beauty. So that's my heathen story of - take your pick - interesting coincidences, or meaningful associations.
Last edited by Ethel on Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ethel
I had a summer like that. I lost a brother, suddenly, too.
And, if you want to hear an interesting coincidence, or a meaningful association, I've just been writing about his death in a post that I want to put in Sassy's "Resolution of Doubt" thread. I have never written about the experience before. I have rarely spoken of it to anyone outside my immediate family and most intimate circle of friends.
It's difficult. Very difficult.
You have given me the strength to continue.
Thank-you.
I had a summer like that. I lost a brother, suddenly, too.
And, if you want to hear an interesting coincidence, or a meaningful association, I've just been writing about his death in a post that I want to put in Sassy's "Resolution of Doubt" thread. I have never written about the experience before. I have rarely spoken of it to anyone outside my immediate family and most intimate circle of friends.
It's difficult. Very difficult.
You have given me the strength to continue.
Thank-you.
Who could be so lucky? Who comes to a lake for water and sees the reflection of moon.
Jalal ad-Din Rumi
Are you willing to tell us more? I'm very familiar with the dilemma between "let's don't talk about it because it demeans things" versus "No, we HAVE to talk about it. It's important."Athrabeth wrote:Ethel
I had a summer like that. I lost a brother, suddenly, too.
Well, I'll check out Sassy's thread.
In some ways, my brother was the most important person in my life. Not in a good way - he did me a lot of harm. But my family kept moving across the US as my father climbed up or down various coporate ladders. My brother was the one person I had known my whole life.
He was horrible to me in our childhood, and also wonderful. He would protect me from the bullies in the neighborhood, but then beat me up himself.
That last meeting between us was a great grace. This is hard stuff to talk about.
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Ethel........we seem to have some strange parallels in our lives.
He was funny and bright and terrifying and very difficult, and he was only eighteen years old when he was killed.
Anyway.......I don't want to derail this thread any further. I'm going to finish my post for Sassy's thread........having a lot of difficulty finishing posts these days, for some reason.
Thanks again, Ethel.
My brother was an outrageous tease, and could be very cruel. He and my older sister had it pretty good for some years before I came along......and then two more little brothers! He told me more than once that I spoiled everything..........because of my summer birth, my parents had to go back on their promise to take my sister and him to Disneyland......and then later, with five kids, they couldn't afford it.....along with a lot of other things that he evidently felt deprived of. But he was also the one who gave me my "true name".......refusing to call me by the name that was on my first birth certificate (Andrea) and insisting that I be named after the child that Roy Rogers and Dale Evans had lost that same year. Yes.......every word of this is true, but it seems so weird when I write it down.He was horrible to me in our childhood, and also wonderful. He would protect me from the bullies in the neighborhood, but then beat me up himself.
He was funny and bright and terrifying and very difficult, and he was only eighteen years old when he was killed.
Anyway.......I don't want to derail this thread any further. I'm going to finish my post for Sassy's thread........having a lot of difficulty finishing posts these days, for some reason.
Thanks again, Ethel.
Who could be so lucky? Who comes to a lake for water and sees the reflection of moon.
Jalal ad-Din Rumi
The counsellor I see sporadically told me long ago that we keep revisiting the death of a loved one. You think you have "dealt with" it, and then some random occurence brings it back with a shock. This happened to me yesterday in a store. Sarah McLachlan's "I'll Remember You" began playing in the background and it hit me so hard I began to shake. When my daughter-in-law died one of her best friends sang that song at the funeral. I had to just walk away leaving the half-filled cart in the aisle, and sat crying in my car for a long time before I could go on. Yet our beloved girl died nearly 7 years ago!
My father's death is a gentle sorrow, although I loved him dearly. His death was sad, but was not a tragedy, simply the death of a man who came to the end of his life. I can think of him and smile.
The death of a sibling is hard, a trial I have been spared. Since I'm the oldest, I probably and thankfully won't have to endure it.
Thank you again, Ethel. I hope that this has helped you.
My father's death is a gentle sorrow, although I loved him dearly. His death was sad, but was not a tragedy, simply the death of a man who came to the end of his life. I can think of him and smile.
The death of a sibling is hard, a trial I have been spared. Since I'm the oldest, I probably and thankfully won't have to endure it.
Thank you again, Ethel. I hope that this has helped you.
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