Gun Control Debate

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It depends on which "disparity in COVID deaths" you are talking about. Are you talking about the current supposed disparity between Republicans and Democrats, or the very well-documented disparity between whites and people of color?

[elengil]

Are you talking about the current supposed disparity between Republicans and Democrats,

/sigh/ yeah... that one...

or the very well-documented disparity between whites and people of color?

[Maria]

I said in the Roe v. Wade thread that the Texas abortion law had rivals for the the title of the worst law recently passed by the Texas legislature. One might think that I was thinking of the horrible voter suppression laws that they passed recently after the Democrats in the Texas House ended their self-exile, but as bad as that legislation is, that is not what I was referring to. It was this:

New Texas “Unlicensed Carry” Gun Law Lets Just About Anyone Carry a Gun

Missouri did that a few years back. It made my husband's conceal / carry permit instantly obsolete.

[N.E. Brigand]

According to this report from Vice, the gun manufacturer Remington, as part of its defense against a class-action lawsuit brought by the families of victims in the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, has subpoenaed the "report cards, attendance reports, and disciplinary records" of dead kindergartners.

[Frelga]

Are you talking about the current supposed disparity between Republicans and Democrats,

/sigh/ yeah... that one...

or the very well-documented disparity between whites and people of color?

Wrong thread, I know, but this article shows a direct correlation between the percentage of Trump voters and covid case and death rates. A caveat is that it does not show that Trump voters are the ones dying. Deaths could well be indiscriminate, due to the lack of public health protections in these counties.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

With regard to the shooting at Oxford High School, allegedly by 15 year old Ethan Crumbley using a gun purchased by his father, there are two unusual aspects to the charges that have been filed.

First in addition to murder charges (as an adult), Ethan Crumbley has also been charged with "terrorism causing death" which is unusual but not unheard of in school shootings. While he certainly caused terror, I'm not sure that I would agree with charging him with terrorism as I understand what terrorism is. However, based on how Michigan law defines terrorism, it probably does apply.

As used in this chapter:
(a) "Act of terrorism" means a willful and deliberate act that is all of the following:
(i) An act that would be a violent felony under the laws of this state, whether or not committed in this state.
(ii) An act that the person knows or has reason to know is dangerous to human life.
(iii) An act that is intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or influence or affect the conduct of government or a unit of government through intimidation or coercion.

Secondly, both of his parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, have been charged with involuntary manslaughter. I can't recall another incident of a school shooting where this has happened. I will be interested to see how the prosecutors make this case. This is certainly part of it:

James Crumbley bought the gun four days before it was used in the shooting, prosecutor Karen McDonald said Friday at a news conference. Sophomore Ethan Crumbley was with him and later posted on social media about the gun.
Jennifer Crumbley also posted about the gun on social media, calling it "his new Christmas present," McDonald said.

It also known that shortly before the shootings, there was a meeting with the parents about concerning behavior by Ethan, but that Ethan was then allowed to return to class. It is now believed that Ethan had the gun with him in his backpack during that meeting.

Logic would suggest that such an obvious example of how easy it is to abuse our current gun laws to tragic result would help move the needle towards more responsible gun laws. But, of course, it won't.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The parents are, apparently, on the run.

More facts are coming out. Apparently, the concerning behavior that led to the meeting with the parents included:

A teacher of shooting suspect, Ethan Crumbley, found a note on his desk on the morning of the shooting that "alarmed her to the point she took a picture of it on her cell phone."

She said the note included a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words, "the thoughts won't stop, help me." The note also included a section with a drawing of a bullet with the words "blood everywhere."

The parents of the suspect "were immediately summoned" to the school, McDonald said. The prosecutor noted that the suspect altered the note before it was retrieved by a counselor.

"At the meeting James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get the — their son into counseling within 48 hours," she said.

The prosecutor said the parents "failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun which he had with him."

The parents resisted the idea of their son leaving the school at that time and they left the school without him, she added. He was returned to the classroom.

Presumably the school officials who allowed him to return to class did not know that he had just been given a gun as a Christmas present, but obviously the parents did. However, there is also this on the day before the shooting:

A teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan searching for ammunition on his phone and reported that information to school officials. His parents did not reply when the school attempted to contact them. Later, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged texts with Ethan stating, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

So the school officials should have had some idea that might have had access to a gun, otherwise why would he be looking for ammunition? It is easy to second-guess, but in hindsight he clearly should not have been allowed to return to class.

But I can certainly see why the prosecutor decided to charge the parents. I wonder if they really are on the run somewhere, or if they themselves are dead.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Now attorneys representing the parents are claiming that they did not flee but simply left town for their own safety, and are returning to be arraigned.

We'll see.

[N.E. Brigand]

"You have to learn not to get caught."

I'm sure his mother didn't seriously expect him to do anything violent, but what a message!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

She also texted him after reports of the shootings had already started to say "don't do it, Ethan." Um, he had already done it. The father called 911 when he discovered that the gun was missing and reported that he thought his son might be the shooter. The gun had been reportedly kept in an unlocked drawer in the parent's bedroom.

The sheriff is now saying that he did not know that the parents were going to be charged until he read about it in the media. That is some pretty incredible lack of communication between the prosecutor and law enforcement.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The parents have been apprehended.

A tip led police to the parents of Ethan Crumbley, the suspect in the Oxford High School shooting, who were arrested in Detroit on manslaughter charges, officials said Saturday.

James and Jennifer Crumbley were found on the first floor of an industrial building near where authorities had located their car shortly before they were apprehended, Detroit Police spokesperson Rudy Harper told CNN.
"They appeared to be hiding in the building," Detroit Police Chief James White said during a news conference early Saturday morning. They were "very distressed" after they were detained, the chief said.

[River]

Day of the shooting the kid was caught searching the internet for ammo on a school computer and then drawing pictures of people getting shot. His parents were notified both times. For some reason, they didn't take him home and the school did not send him home. Then he opened fire. Looks to me like every single institution you can think of meant to protect children failed that day. And frankly, the failure started at home. Not just because the gun was accessible but because the parents seem to have missed a rather important rule about parenting: you are not your child's friend. If you are, you can't discipline them when the time comes.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

California governor Gavin Newsom says that he will push for gun control laws in California using a similar enforcement mechanism that Texas has used with abortion, that was largely endorsed by a majority of the Supreme Court. It remains to be seen whether this is just talk by him or if the legislature will really move forward with this.

[Inanna]

Fingers crossed.

[Frelga]

Good.

[N.E. Brigand]

It makes no sense that attendees of Donald Trump's upcoming address to the NRA will not be permitted to bring their guns into the room.

[RoseMorninStar]

It makes no sense that attendees of Donald Trump's upcoming address to the NRA will not be permitted to bring their guns into the room.

Yeah, isn't that a kicker?

Meanwhile, our children and ordinary citizens are players -and casualties- in a real-life Hunger Games seemingly sanctioned by many politicians.

[River]

It makes no sense that attendees of Donald Trump's upcoming address to the NRA will not be permitted to bring their guns into the room.

Well it would be just awful if there were to be a mass shooting at such an event wouldn't it? They might end up like those poor kids in Texas.

[RoseMorninStar]

It makes no sense that attendees of Donald Trump's upcoming address to the NRA will not be permitted to bring their guns into the room.

Well it would be just awful if there were to be a mass shooting at such an event wouldn't it? They might end up like those poor kids in Texas.

What?? No FREEDOM in 'Merica at the NRA gathering? * is so disgusted *

[N.E. Brigand]

Every new report from Uvalde makes the police response look worse.