Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Frelga
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Frelga »

Just for Al, here's a Republican with whom I agree on something.

Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger on the GOP, 'NAFO,' and reasons to escalate in Ukraine
He is the first and only sitting U.S. legislator to enlist in the “North Atlantic Fella Organization,” or NAFO, an increasingly influential online army of activists who savagely mock pro-Kremlin trolls and Russian diplomats on Twitter and are instantly recognizable by their individually stylized or militarized Shiba Inu avatars.
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Inanna
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Inanna »

So as the saying goes - the devil is in the details.

With the hypotheticals I stated (assume they weren’t lied to etc); it’s fine. Once those rules are removed, the details are the reasons why this was an awful, awful act. And hence the uproar.

One reason I asked was because Part of the uproar reeked to me of NIMBY-ism. “Yes, please we should open our borders. But hey, there’s no space on my pretty island! Only millionaires live here”.

BTW, I understand the sentiments and the emotions, but even with me taking a hypothetical stance, it was very hard to face this onslaught. I lost sleep etc. Of course, I avoid conflict and find it very upsetting which is why I stay out of Lasto. So maybe I’m not the best person to have attempted this, anyway, but I’m feeling sympathy towards the republicans who have tried to discuss opposing issues at HoF.
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by RoseMorninStar »

What we need are better immigration policies. The current system is dysfunctional. Congress is dysfunctional. Maliciously dehumanizing people as pawns for personal (political or otherwise) gain and point scoring is rarely never a good thing, especially when it absolutely doesn't take the needs of those being used into consideration.

Where I live workers are desperately needed but they (migrants, asylum seekers, etc..) probably won't be sent here because it's a Republican stronghold.

Yesterday I read an article in the Washington Post written from the Republican perspective: Opinion
DeSantis’s migrant stunt might be a scandal. But so is our border crisis.
by Henry Olson. The article made many good points to which I agree, but it misses it in the finer details which matter. There are some excellent posts in the comment section which rebut/fact check this article and those are worth a read too.

For one, a physical wall in this day & age, as secure and satisfied as it may make some feel, is a waste of money and resources. Walls can be climbed over or cut, they are impossible to build in some areas (there are major waterways) or require the division/confiscation of land from landowners and it causes problems with animal migration. Technology could create a better type of surveillance or sensor wall.
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River
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Inanna wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:59 pm One reason I asked was because Part of the uproar reeked to me of NIMBY-ism. “Yes, please we should open our borders. But hey, there’s no space on my pretty island! Only millionaires live here”.
I can understand this feeling as NIMBY-ism is making a complete mess of the county I live in (and it's got nothing to do with the humanitarian crisis at the border, it's just years and years of policies pushed by prissy people coming to a head) and that was the sort of reaction was the exact thing the stunt with Martha's Vineyard was supposed to invoke. They've been trying with buses to DC as well. Except aid groups are catching these people and pushing out the counter-narrative: that they were effectively trafficked in.

Weirdly, CA and NM are also border states and don't seem to be having problems. Or, at least, aren't having a massive tantrum and shoving people onto buses or planes to be sent somewhere without consent. AZ, also a border state, is complaining but, AFAIK, isn't engaging in trafficking either. I wonder what they're doing differently.
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Frelga
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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In CA, I've heard more complaints when they made border crossing difficult to Tijuana. The cross-border economy is highly integrated, and whole industries depend on migrant and seasonal workers.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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RoseMorninStar
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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While admitting the US has immigration issues Pete Buttigieg said something the other day (to paraphrase) about politicians choosing attention seeking stunts instead of being part of the solution, and commented that they (politician) didn't work on issues while in congress. I think this gets at the heart of the matter. Anti-immigrant sentiment is a winning issue for some politicians and perhaps not something they truly want to fix. Hot button issues (immigration, abortion) are easy motivators for single issue voters/winners for politicians. Sticking it to the 'other' side is a bonus. Using people as pawns to garner attention/support is sadly dysfunctional.

DeSantis (Florida governor & possible presidential candidate) recognizes the immigration 'advantage' and purportedly stated to donors at a fund raiser last year that Texas's 1,254-mile border with Mexico was good political fortune that he was not lucky enough to have'. Hence why he is spending Florida taxpayer money in Texas. DeSantis has stated he intends to spend all $12 million on similar stunts. Seriously, isn't there a better way to spend Florida taxpayer money within his own state than political theater to benefit his own presidential hopes?

It would be nice if there were easy answers. And more cooperation for the good of all/the country.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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https://uproxx.com/movies/whoopi-goldbe ... dy-kaling/

https://ew.com/movies/whoopi-goldberg-d ... criticism/


Is political correctness killing comedy?
“It deals with racism by coming at it right, straight, out front, making you think and laugh about it, because, listen, it’s not just racism, it’s all the isms, he hits all the isms,” the Oscar-winning actress said. “Blazing Saddles, because it’s a great comedy, would still go over today. There are a lot of comedies that are not good, okay? We’re just going to say that. That’s not one of them. Blazing Saddles is one of the greatest because it hits everybody.”
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Sunsilver »

Hmmm...interesting thought. It's been so long since I've seen Blazing Saddles that I really can't comment, but I agree with the comments on Archie Bunker. A lot of the humour in the show was due to Archie's prejudices, and he covered the ballpark from racism to misogyny.
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I've not seen Blazing Saddles so I can't comment on that specifically but I agree comedy has to walk a fine line. Archie Bunker was funny because we were all in on the joke/we all knew he was being a racist, misogynist, bigot. Sometimes that is not so clear.

I grew up with a father who made 'jokes' which I knew were not really jokes and were just downright cruel. Other people thought they were funny because they thought he was 'joking'. But I knew he really meant what he said. That tends to make me a bit jaded toward some comedy, especially when it leans toward cruelty.

I'd say the same goes for political correctness, it's a fine line and it evolves, which makes it even more difficult.
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Impenitent
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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What RoseMorninStar said (Every time you speak of your father I feel like giving you a supportive hug.)
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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I gradually got past the fear, anger, and bitterness but I have a belief; to forgive is indeed divine. It is best, if and when one can, to forgive or at least put the pain behind them. Not so much for the other person who many never even know they have been forgiven, but for one's own soul and peace of mind. Bitterness and desire for revenge consumes a person and does no good. ( Al's recent post in the Geek thread regarding a review of Wuthering Heights covers this well). The caveat: forgive, but (especially in cases of serious harm/injury/abuse) do not forget, learn from the experience. Forgetting is a setup for more of the same.

I occasionally worry that I have an inappropriate response when someone has a beloved parent who passes. They are hurting and in pain.. but all I can think is how wonderful it must have been to have had someone (a parent) who loved you and who is worthy of missing.

Anyway.. it's behind me, but not 'gone'. I'll take the hug and right back at you, Impy. :hug:
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

:hug:
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Inanna
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Big hugs, Rose.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I wasn't looking for sympathy (although I'll take the hugs). :) I've had many years to heal and he is gone (I say that with no anger or bitterness) I can finally breathe and have a healthier perspective.

Getting back to the topic at hand, my experiences have taught me to view what people have to say 'as a joke' through a certain lens. While I agree political correctness can be taken too far, to the point where it is stiffing/ends up not being good for anyone, I view comments/jokes through a 'does this pass the bullshit/am I/is someone being gaslighted for being 'too sensitive' so the 'joker' can get a dig in at a person/group of persons, lens. Is it funny or is it cruel/unkind? It's a fine line. Every age has had a 'political correctness' filter, it's nothing new, but it evolves and that makes it tricky.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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I grew up with a father who made 'jokes' which I knew were not really jokes and were just downright cruel. Other people thought they were funny because they thought he was 'joking'. But I knew he really meant what he said. That tends to make me a bit jaded toward some comedy, especially when it leans toward cruelty.
Rose, they've actually come up with a name for someone like that:
Yeah, it's in the Urban Dictionary!
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When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by RoseMorninStar »

LOL, Suny.
What I experienced was more of a form of gaslighting. When he said cruel things we were just being 'too sensitive'. But, as has become obvious, some people really enjoy that sort of thing. Trump would never have become so popular if they didn't.

I'd say he was more of a Trump, Elon Musk, etc.. type person (narcissism), but not as bad. But perhaps only because he didn't have as much power/wealth. That combination is a bad one.
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by RoseMorninStar »

We don't get Hulu, has anyone watched The 1619 Project documentary?
Last edited by RoseMorninStar on Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Inanna
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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No. But I’ve read about it in the nytimes magazine features. Riveting.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Alatar »

Never heard of it. Before I google, should I? :)
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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I corrected/edited my earlier post to read The 1619 Project.

Al, it's about the history of the slave trade in the Americas. I don't know much beyond that. There was a book of the same title published prior to the documentary.
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