The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

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River
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by River »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:They were able to rebut the claim with actual facts; they just needed to use the right actual facts. They were able to have their rebuttal witness testify to that Mr. Floyd's oxygen saturation was 98% when he died, thus proving categorically that the defense expert witness's claim that Mr. Floyd's carbon monoxide levels in his blood could have increased by 10% to 15% was categorically impossible. What the judge ruled that the prosecution could not use was test results of carbon dioxide in Mr. Floyd's blood that had not been previously revealed to the defense. It was absolutely the right call by the judge. I don't even have a niggling doubt about that.
Carbon monoxide poisoning might not be found by a test for O2 saturation unless they drew from an artery. The test with the finger thing at the doctor's office looks for bound hemoglobin and CO binds hemoglobin even more tightly than O2. That's why it's deadly, actually. It literally takes up all the space. If Mr. Floyd got killed by CO, though, one has to wonder why no one else at the scene developed symptoms and also wonder if he would have been exposed to this lethal gas if officers hadn't been sitting on him until he went unresponsive.

Or are you talking about lethal amounts of carbon dioxide? Not being able to blow off CO2 is a sign of diminished respiratory function and I'm not sure how that would help the defense given the findings that Floyd was asphyxiated. But if you can't blow off CO2, your O2 sat will drop because you aren't moving air. You'll also feel like you can't breathe because it's CO2 that drives respiratory function in anyone who isn't in the late stages of COPD. That's why, even though they're able to talk to you, people in respiratory distress will say they can't breathe or can't get in enough air or can't catch their breath. You have to take it seriously when someone is gasping for air and saying they can't breathe because this can progress to respiratory arrest.

ETA: Okay, found some more information about the defense witness's claims vs. the evidence in hand. The O2 sat was from a blood draw, so they could determine if Mr. Floyd got poisoned by CO and yeah, the witness was more than a little off base there.

Also, it appears that Chauvin is invoking his 5th Amendment rights and not taking the stand.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Sunsilver »

I understand the police car was a hybrid, therefore it would have been producing ZERO carbon monoxide when just idling. The gas engine only kicks in at speeds above 30 m.p.h. I used to own a hybrid Toyota Highlander, so I can say this with complete confidence.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

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The overlap of trials, revelations of new shootings, and mass shootings is getting Kafkaesque, and yet the Onion manages to get a word in.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by elengil »

:nono:
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

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Fairfax seeks to dismiss 400 convictions in cases brought by one officer
Fairfax County prosecutors are moving to throw out more than 400 criminal convictions based on the testimony or work of a former patrol officer who is accused of stealing drugs from the police property room, planting drugs on innocent people and stopping motorists without legal basis, court filings show.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The case is with the jury.

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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

A verdict has been reached.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Jude »

Are you optimistic?
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

It seems like a quick verdict for such a complex case. My gut tells me that that is a good sign. But who knows? We should have an answer within an hour.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by elengil »

Unintentional murder - guilty
3rd deg. murder - guilty
2nd deg. manslaughter - guilty
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Yup. In my opinion they got it right.

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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

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I am relieved.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Jude »

Me too.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Sunsilver »

As are most of us, River!

I hate to imagine the violence that would break out if he'd been found innocent.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think the best that I can say is that I feel less bad than I would have under any other result.
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by elengil »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:03 pm I think the best that I can say is that I feel less bad than I would have under any other result.

I think that's about the perfect way to put it.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Sunsilver »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:03 pm I think the best that I can say is that I feel less bad than I would have under any other result.
I saw a post elsewhere that said, "This wasn't the perfect outcome. The perfect outcome would have been for this to never have happened in the first place." :(

Below is the original police statement of Floyd's arrest. Thank God there were people at the scene filming what actually happened! :x
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When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Frelga »

What a bizarre statement by the Mayor of Minneapolis.
George Floyd came to Minneapolis to better his life. But ultimately his life will have bettered our city. The jury joined in a shared conviction that has animated Minneapolis for the last 11 months. They refused to look away and affirmed he should still be here today.
https://twitter.com/MayorFrey/status/13 ... 74625?s=19
:nono:


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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Sunsilver »

By contrast, Biden made a wonderful, heart-felt speech, as well as speaking personally with Floyd's family:
The President called a guilty verdict like the one rendered Tuesday "much too rare" and said it was "not enough" to cure all of society's problems.
"For so many people it seems like it took a unique and extraordinary convergence of factors. A brave young woman with a smartphone camera. A crowd that was traumatized," Biden said, making note that the murder lasted "almost 10 minutes."
"Black men, in particular, have been treated throughout the course of our history as less than human. Their lives must be valued in -- our nation. Full stop," Biden added.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/20/politics ... index.html
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
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Re: The Murder of George Floyd and the Response To It

Post by Túrin Turambar »

I expected guilty on manslaughter, but I was surprised it was guilty on all three changes (then again, I'm not used to the American system of first/second/third degree murder - there are offences which are murder in the U.S. which would only be considered manslaughter in Australia and UK).

It's correct, though. I have some sympathy for police officers who make the wrong call and shoot someone in the heat of the moment, but I simply can't imagine kneeling on someone's neck for nine minutes while they kept insisting they couldn't breathe, and then passed out.

And reading the police report, I am also glad that the entire thing was filmed.
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