Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Here are some comments made by some people at the TORN Discord who have seen Episodes 1 and 2. SW (or anyone else) please add any that you come across, if you care to.
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NOSY'S NUANCED NOVELLA by @DrNosy

Despite watching the first 2 episodes, I'm still processing things. I've decided I need the entirety of S1 before I can fairly judge it. Things are unfolding slowly. The things I loved are things I had no expectations abt. The things I didn't like had to do with the lack of exposition & nuance in layering the characters + motives (Elrond). There are some things that felt strange. Such as the choice of VFX art (overly flashing symbols, veil of blinding light), editing (meteor tracked in the sky), and plot (Gil-galad's 'kingly' speech, Galadriel on a boat in the Sundering Seas). I understand why these things were done, and I suppose it's always a problem with any fantasy show bc you're trying to draw the line between deep lore vs. slowly revealing visuals. The things I'd no expectations abt and loved very much (Dwarves, Harfoots), I'd describe as being Tolkienesque.
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ANDDDD ANOTHER PREMIERE REVIEW from @one-trick-rick

Truly surreal to see the stars, and of course my favorite Tolkien content creators all in one room before the big screening. No one gets to this kind of of event out of toxic spite, everyone seemed very excited to be there. I thought the actors would be a little irked having to entertain us nerds, but I forget that this cast is so incredible sincere.

Excitement was building while we waited in the theater, and I had a great conversation with a well versed Tolkien fan to my left and someone who had only seen the movies on my right (they both liked it). The first episode starts in beautiful but furious manner. I’m going to say the euphoria I felt in the opening minutes was because of the incredible visuals and score and not the champagne I had earlier. I truly was overwhelmed, and had to constantly remind myself what I just saw so I wouldn’t forget when it was time to gather my thoughts.

I’m very glad to say the show wasn’t always furious paced, and it’s in the slow moments that I teared up twice. There are things that I won’t fault others for disliking, and I look forward to genuine discourse (thankful for this discord for that)
All in all, If they can continue this quality or even up it as the seasons progress, There will be more Emmy’s than haters by season 5 ( the dream at least)
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ANOTHER PREMIERE REVIEW from @AuroraBoreale 1/3

Seeing the first two episodes felt as if I had read only a few paragraphs of a 12-book long epic. I’m keen to read to the end, but it’s hard to gauge at this point if I’ll end up liking what they’ve done since there is still so much I haven’t seen. I’m inclined to think that this season will mainly focus on introducing (or re-introducing) characters, building up cultures and their underlying history, contextualizing their relationships to one another, and establishing a stage for later action to take place on in later seasons.
Much like the middle seasons of Game of Thrones, the show might suffer from trying to develop too many narratives and perspectives at once. The large cast only allows you to get so far into each storyline in every episode, and the pacing felt slow to start with. Though, I can see that the showrunners are attentive to that as we have yet to set foot in Númenor. We’re all heading there together! which I thought was a nice touch.

I went into this expecting to be swept up in Galadriel’s story, but I found myself questioning the motivation the writers gave her character. It felt as if she may be poised for some Batman-ing across Middle Earth, but I could stand corrected. She also makes, to my mind, a questionable choice that leads her to Michael Phelps-ing (or Katie Ledecky-ing) it across an entire sea back to Middle Earth. I know, the genre is called fantasy, but this had me laughing during what was meant to be a highly dramatic scene and pivotal in her character development. I also felt squeamish when I saw attempts to weave political and palace intrigue into the show that set Gil-Galad and Galadriel at odds with Elrond in the middle. But, then Celebrimbor (Brimby) shows up with a relic of everyone’s favorite elf to love or hate from the First Age and you catch a glimpse of why this show has the title it does.


ANOTHER PREMIERE REVIEW from @AuroraBoreale 2/3

And then, there’s Khazad-dûm and Princess Disa. I’m no Varking Runesong, but I would be completely content in watching this storyline alone. Gone are the days in which dwarves serve as comedic relief. Princess Disa will steal all of your hearts within seconds, playing someone who can be both gentle and formidable at once. The dwarves are coming to us with more depth and range than we’ve seen before. In a single dinner sequence, you experience laughter, pain, love, longing, understanding, misunderstanding, forgiveness and reconciliation – all while you’re treated to Khazad-dûm in its heyday. Fellowship has always been at the heart of Tolkien, and this storyline made me feel that I had returned to a more familiar Middle Earth than at any other point in the premiere. Durin greets Elrond rather coldly when we first arrive in Khazad-dûm, and you might be fooled into thinking, as Elrond does, that his friend is being unreasonable, stubborn or proud (“Save me from the stubbornness of dwarves!” as Gandalf might say). But, you’ll quickly see the tables turn, and view the interaction from Durin’s perspective. I don’t think I’ve ever been more sympathetic or interested in the dwarves as I was during these scenes, and I cannot wait to see the changing dynamic of a relationship so affected by how they each experience time.

ANOTHER PREMIERE REVIEW from @AuroraBoreale 3/3

This series was always going to be a trickier adaptation than The Lord of the Rings trilogy. While we have potential plot points, the heavy burden of forging paths between those rests on the shoulders of writers, who are essentially ghost-writing in Tolkien’s absence, attempting to pay homage to both his voice and his vision. There were several nods to the Jackson team’s films, particularly a variation of the ‘history became legend, legend became myth’ during Galadriel’s introduction and shots that resembled Jackson’s style. With that said, this feels very different, and that’s not wholly a bad thing. Say what you will about this adaptation, whenever you pass judgment on it for yourself, thought and care has gone into it. I may have been lucky enough to see these episodes early, but it has come at the cost of having to wait nearly a month for the next episode. And I cannot wait.
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PREMIERE ATTENDEES MASTER POST

@TheChivKnight
So the NYC Screening was an amazing night. The first two episodes completely subdued any fears I initially had with the show. The cinematography was top notch. On the IMAX screen the CGI was almost completely unnoticeable, and the sound was amazing. I think by them working with John Howe there is enough connective tissue where this feels both familiar and fresh at the same time. Since these first episodes are setting up a lot of different story lines its hard to say how each of them will land but what I can say is I am very invested on how these stories unfold. I was nervous Arondir would be another over the top Legolas (like in the hobbit) but he may well be my favorite character. He gives me more of Strider vibes. Galadriel is perfect. Now this show is at a disadvantage to the die hard Tolkien fans because Tolkien himself didn’t write much about the second age… so yeah there will be new characters, new dialogue, and adaptation choices that some people may not agree with. BUT as a fan of Tolkien myself having read all the main works, listened to Corey’s entire collection on the Silmarillion, LOTR being my favorite movies… I am very excited to see where this adventure takes us.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Alatar »

Very positive! I'm getting a little excited now...
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Snowdog »

I have to say that my expectations of something decent has come a long way since 2017. I'm looking forward to watching this! Don't have any spoliers to add, but will post a tweet from Neil Gaiman (who has bene labeled a 'paid amazon schill' along with anyone else who said something remotely positive about the series after seeing it)

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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Impenitent »

I'm softening.
Mornings wouldn't suck so badly if they came later in the day.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by narya »

So.... I just finished watching the first and second episode. I had mixed feelings about it, but I do plan to continue watching the series. Here are my humble thumbnail impressions, with spoilery bits, but not really plot spoilers.
- I had to explain everything to my husband as we watched it, and several times it looked like he was about to walk out on it - some of the dialogue scenes were too slow and unengaging. I doubt he's read the LOTR appendices in the past 50 years, so it is almost as if he was watching as a Tolkien virgin. I pointed out the few canon characters, and explained that the rest was essentially fan-fic based on a few sentences here and there.
- As soon as the Harfoots appeared, though, I recalled Tolkien's technique of using hobbits to bring us into Middle Earth in a way that would have been too esoteric if just focusing on elves. The hobbit ancestors certainly drew me back in when the elves were getting a little too full of themselves. (Really, does Galadriel ever unclench her teeth?)
- The dwarves were much better than the LOTR ones - less slapstick, more of a real sense of culture. And the humor there was, was more subtle and delightful.
- The music was good, snatching a half-remembered themes from elsewhere (LOTR, Jaws) into a completely new, coherent system.
- One of my biggest complaints about LOTR (though I'm sure no one was listening to me) was that it had too many orcs. I really could have done with shorter orc scenes in the LOTR. These first two episodes were OK in that they showed teasing views of orcs, rather than a half of an hour with 1000s of CGI orcs, but I fear there will be far more orcs in the future.
- The costuming was beautiful, in an understated way, though I was slightly scandalized by Galadriel's wet shift scenes with clearly no undergarments.
- Having lived in Alaska for 30 years, the choices of garments for the ice climbing scenes was a little puzzling. A chain mail hood in a subzero blizzard? Do you want to keep your ears?
- Due to it being my first watching, and having my neophyte hubby in the room, and the occasional gaffs, I kept finding myself pulled out of the fantasy and back into my living room, on and off. I'm hoping it will be more immersive the second time around.

And now to bed. I look forward to all of your impressions tomorrow.
In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer. ~ Albert Camus
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Alatar »

Not watched yet, but here's the review of a buddy of mine
Okay, so I stayed up and watched the first two episodes Amazon has made available, and I have to say, they’ve managed to pull it off.
This isn’t Peter Jackson’s finely honed masterpiece, and that’s okay- the show doesn’t need the burden of that expectation. This isn’t Alan Lee’s Tolkien; this is the brothers Greg and Tim Hildebrandt, with just a shot of John Howe. The events of Silmarillion get, at best, mentioned but mostly the allusions are in the visuals- The Crossing of the Helcaraxë, The Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the shipwreck of Voronwë, and even Alan Garner’s Weirdstone of Brisingamen get to have echoes in the visuals. All the storylines get to zip along at a grand old pace, while still setting a slow burn for the return of Sauron. Orcs are barely seen, but get a bogey man treatment, which works great.
Is it Fan Fiction? Kinda, but it still at least feels Tolkien adjacent, and that’ll work for now.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Dave_LF »

I only have a minute, but the most important "review" I can give is to say that it held my attention rapt for two hours--I didn't so much as pick up my phone to check my notifications. And when we reached the end of episode 1, there was no question of doing anything other than immediately proceeding to #2.

Are there flaws? Sure. But listing them would be like saying things that bug you about a friend--you're aware they exist, but at the end of the day they don't really matter; he's still a cool guy you want to hang out with as much as possible.

Obviously I've only seen 2 episodes and there's still plenty of time for things to go bad (or get even better!), but I'm optimistic.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Dave_LF »

One little detail that surprised me is that “Harfoot” is evidently the name of the species/race of proto-hobbits rather than a surname. Also the hint that
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Halbrand could be Theo’s missing father (or at least have some connection to him)
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Dave_LF »

Elrond's visit to Kazad-Dum was probably my favorite subplot so far. I may be wrong, but aside from a few seconds of the AUJ prologue, I think this is the first time in all these films etc. that we've encountered dwarves in a domestic setting just working and hanging out and living their lives. I'm pretty happy with the different dwarf looks they've come up with too.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Alatar »

Brief review.

I think the best description is Tolkien Adjacent. It feels like a parallel world from the books. Same characters and world but slightly different. More later.


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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Dave_LF »

I agree with that. I’m pretending it’s another version of a legend from the same tradition, written by a different author from a neighboring culture about a century later.

I don’t have to pretend that hard. ;)
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Eldy »

I watched the first two episodes last night with my boyfriend and his housemate. I was really tired after a half-day of travel (and not sleeping the night before), though it was certainly worth it for the much preferable viewing experience of cuddling on a couch instead of lying alone in my room. :3 I enjoyed the premiere, but I was by no means blown away; I'm not feeling particularly pessimistic or optimistic about the remainder of the series being top-tier television or not, though I'll definitely be watching either way. Enough people have commented on how visually impressive the series is that I don't feel the need to add anything on that front other than my brief agreement. As someone who followed news of the series quite closely for most of this calendar year, there were not many surprises in the first two episodes, though I've been out of the loop for the past three weeks so I'm curious if there was any more information about the circumstances of Galadriel's sailing west, and her meeting with Halbrand, revealed in that time. That was the biggest surprise to me.

Like Dave, I especially enjoyed the Dwarvish subplot. That's easily my favorite so far, though as a Númenor fangirl I'm very much looking forward to getting to see that lot next week. This version of Dwarves is a breath of fresh air after the Jackson trilogies, and not only because they have beards this time (the men, anyway). I liked seeing Elrond get called out for low-key Elvish chauvinism/thoughtlessness, though I hope his reconciliation with Durin IV will prove lasting. It'll be interesting to find out what the two Durins were looking at at the end. My first thought was...

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...Marcellus Wallace's soul, but my actual guess is mithril. :P

Anyway, it was an enjoyable way to spend a couple hours, and I look forward to seeing more. This time five years ago, I was not at all chomping at the bit for a new live-action Tolkien adaptation, but this one is pretty good so far. I'm pickier than I would be with any other franchise, because of course I am, but that's just me being me.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Eldy »

I will add that all three of us found the dialogue hard to make out at times, being swamped by the music and sound effects, to the point that we turned on the closed captioning halfway through the first episode. But that might be because we had the volume set lower than the show's audio engineers intended for it to be experienced at.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Hi Eldy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and n8ce to see you. 😀
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Eldy »

Thanks, V! It's nice to be here and reading other people's takes, too. :)
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Hopefully I'll see it eventually. 🙃
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Eldy »

I'll be eagerly awaiting your thoughts, whenever you do!
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Alatar »

I loved the unspoken references to Silmarillion, like the carvings of Beren, Lúthien and Huan. (At least that's who I assumed them to be)
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Aravar »

I saw the first two yesterday. A few thoughts.

I agree with Alatar's Tolkien adjacent.

Visually it was great. Howver I wash there was a bit more variation in style among elven cities.

My problem with it is that it was too Dungeons and Dragons. I say that as someone who has played D & D since 1981 and still plays regularly. Apart from the fact that some of the characters have Tolkien names there was nothing to root it in Middel Earth. You could almost have put it straight into any D & D setting. For example the stone contest in Khazâd Dum seemed to me to be pure RPG filler. It's the sort of thing you might see as a minigame in a computer RPG. The sea monster was also very RPG.

Some of the name relations seemed off. Having a character called Bronwyn is fine, but their child being called Theo would happen nowadays, but seems wrong for Middle Earth, especially as JRRT was such a linguist.

I also did not like the voyage to Aman. This is before the world is changed and Ar Pharazon could physically sail a fleet directly.

Galadriel's swim was ridiculous.
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Re: Spoilerish reviews of Episodes 1 and 2

Post by Alatar »

Personal Pet Peeve. WTF was Galadriel doing with the rope on the raft? Its not like it was attached to a sail.
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