Episode 7 (Spoilers)

[Dave_LF]

Disa's ambition and resentment sounds like the sort of thing that would drive someone to accept a ring of power.

[Stranger Wings]

Unbelievably great episode on a written, acting, visual and Tolkienian level. After episode 1, it’s my favorite thus far. Durin and Durin, Galadriel and Theo, Míriel and Galadriel So many great conversations that say so much about character, and set the table so well for the collective desire for deathlessness then elves, men and dwarves will aspire to. More later, when the show concludes.

[Stranger Wings]

Once I realized that the mithril plot was simply going to be an excuse for why they felt they needed to make the Rings of Power, it bothered me a lot less. My biggest worry continues to be how they introduce Sauron into the equation, whether he is Halbrand or not.

As for the downfall of Khazâd-dûm, bring it on!

This. But even though the failed mithril plan is mostly used to present us with elves that are more desperate, and thus more open to Sauron’s rings proposals, I have since come to also like the weird myth concocted for it. The point as I see it is that there’s one thing the forces of good (represented by elves) and of evil (represented by a balrog) tend to perennially agree on, and that’s a fear of death and a desire to overcome it. And so the result of this conflict is…a substance that has the power to reverse decay and death.

Does it create wonkiness in the lore later on, when mithril does flow a bit? Sure. But ultimately, for a plot device, I think they really thought about how to root it in Tolkien.

I don’t know. I just find the way these showrunners process Tolkien to be creative, refreshing and…overall very thematically faithful.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I still don't like the aspect of the mithril myth relating it to the Silmaril, but I am intrigued by how they have worked in Durin's Bane

[Smaug's voice]

For once the writing actually worked for me on most levels. But the directing was quite a bit of a letdown. Both the Balrog reveal and the closing transition from Southlands to Mordor came off as incredibly clunky and campy in not a good way.

But I loved most of the actual interactions between the characters. Galadriel and Theo especially, both of whom I seem to surprisingly start to have an appreciation for. This was finally much closer to the Galadriel we would expect of Tolkien.

I do not think The Stranger is going to be Gandalf. The one consistent think that the character has since episode 1 is that his power always seems to have a darker side that he gets too caught up in and accidentally hurt or kill someone. My mind tells me it's one of the other Istari.

Míriel's blindness was a nice touch although the actual event felt underwhelming and not momentous enough. But I loved the scene afterwards that shows up the more fiery side of her (which surely would lead to a more sustained war with Sauron?)

Right now, I'm leaning a strong 80% on Halbrand being Sauron. (I don't really dislike the idea since Charlie Vickers has been very charming in the role.)

I'm glad this show continues to maintain the books' and PJ films' tradition of showing vulnerable, open hearted men who are not shy to cry for their friends and sons.

I have a lot of quibbles with the way they directed this episode, but writing and performance wide this felt like a boost with a lot of characters fleshed out more than what they were before.

[Stranger Wings]

For once the writing actually worked for me on most levels. But the directing was quite a bit of a letdown. Both the Balrog reveal and the closing transition from Southlands to Mordor came off as incredibly clunky and campy in not a good way.

But I loved most of the actual interactions between the characters. Galadriel and Theo especially, both of whom I seem to surprisingly start to have an appreciation for. This was finally much closer to the Galadriel we would expect of Tolkien.

I do not think The Stranger is going to be Gandalf. The one consistent think that the character has since episode 1 is that his power always seems to have a darker side that he gets too caught up in and accidentally hurt or kill someone. My mind tells me it's one of the other Istari.

Míriel's blindness was a nice touch although the actual event felt underwhelming and not momentous enough. But I loved the scene afterwards that shows up the more fiery side of her (which surely would lead to a more sustained war with Sauron?)

Right now, I'm leaning a strong 80% on Halbrand being Sauron. (I don't really dislike the idea since Charlie Vickers has been very charming in the role.)

I'm glad this show continues to maintain the books' and PJ films' tradition of showing vulnerable, open hearted men who are not shy to cry for their friends and sons.

I have a lot of quibbles with the way they directed this episode, but writing and performance wide this felt like a boost with a lot of characters fleshed out more than what they were before.

I’m a little confused. Apart from the Mordor reveal at the end (which was bad, but easily remedied by just turning off the episode a few second early) , and the balrog roar (I really don’t understand why they had it roar), what issue did you have with the director? I thought it was the most beautifully-directed episode of the season, with episode 1 behind it. So many beautiful scenes. And impeccable acting,

[Inanna]

Really liked this episode. I had actually skipped parts of episode 6 (I don’t enjoy action scenes), but this one gripped me.

Who are those scary tall people stalking the Stranger supposed to be?

[Inanna]

Disa's ambition and resentment sounds like the sort of thing that would drive someone to accept a ring of power.

Point.

[Inanna]

Only thing is every time I see or hear "THe Dwarves delved too greedily and deeply" I'm gonna be like ORLY???

ORLY??

Or did you mean ELLY?

[Smaug's voice]

I’m a little confused. Apart from the Mordor reveal at the end (which was bad, but easily remedied by just turning off the episode a few second early) , and the balrog roar (I really don’t understand why they had it roar), what issue did you have with the director?

I'm sure that it will come off as nit-picking but there are just these little things and small touches that just add up for me that I can't help but notice and compare with the best of tv I've seen and is only fair to ask of the most expensive tv series till date. They maybe small but I genuinely feel they stack up in a way that they always keep the episodes from completely reaching the potential that they can.

Just as one instance, Míriel's blindness is a really significant event for this season (and maybe the rest of the show, assuming this to be one of the first seeds being down for the enmity between Númenor and Sauron), not least of all because it was so unexpected for both new arrivals and book enthusiasts alike. And although Addai-Robinson is pretty good in both the scenes of the aftermath, the whole event felt fairly toothless. I felt more for Elendil losing his son than the leader of the grandest human civilisation losing her eyesight.

Likewise, much of the reason a lot of people just don't care for the Harfoots is simply the way their side of the story is presented. You don't need to actually narratively connect that sideplot to the mainplot for them to feel like a part of the same tale. Thematic crossovers go a long way in doing that too. But nothing binds the Harfoot characters to the characters of Southlands or Lindon.

There is of course the issue with the extras that I have with these episodes, a lot of the direction (as well as the dialogue) given to them for their scenes feel artificial and community-theatre.

The opening minutes of the episode - with the whole world tinged with red and smoke and our focus only up close to an indomitable Galadriel's shell-shocked eyes, that was powerful. That was biting. The kind of direction I would love to see the rest of the series take.

And the editing for all the episodes really feel all over the place where some scenes simply do not have the impact they would have had they were placed differently within the episode and made the whole thing flow better.
I'll probably have to rewatch the episode to really pick out the instances.

And I really, really dislike both the Mordor text and the Balrog reveal. I disagree that the solution is just to close your eyes and pretend that didn't happen because even artists, I'd feel, would respect a sincere appraisal over blind praise. The Mordor text change annoys me so much because it's so frustratingly unnecessary a choice. If it were up to me, I wouldn't even have given the name and just trust the audiences to figure that without spelling it all out. But fine, they did that. Among all the options they had, what they went with was the clumsiest and worst one. They could have simply had Adar speak the name out then and there and nothing would be lost. (They even set that up last episode with the mention of "Moriondor".)

The Balrog reveal I dislike not just be ause it's so clumsy and clunky but it's also another repeat of the ways the show is banking on the PJ films' imagery to make sure they're not losing their audience. In FotR you truly feel Durin's Bane to be a "demon of the ancient world". They set that up perfectly, from the eerie premonitions and the dialogues to the whe tease of just making us hear it without showing it. By revealing it all here on the first go, they simply reduce it down to some monster in the basement instead of one of the most terrifying and unique creations of Tolkien.



I don't want to sound negative though. I really enjoyed the latest episode and would even include it in the top 3 so far because we had a lot of genuine character moments that actually felt consequential and gave growth to the characters (I keep thinking how big a difference it made for shifting our perspective on Galadriel's character by having her simply mention the fact that she used to dance in the glades, where she fell in love.)

PS: Turns out the text change was pretty much Payne and Mckay's idea. An interview with the director of the latest episode on indiewire:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiew ... 70105/amp/

[Stranger Wings]

As someone who dislikes melodrama (and just how melodramatic the films were) I really appreciate the understated nature of some important moments, including Míriel’s blindness. Her thin shield of stoicism that prevents her from breaking down in that moment was so well done, and then her conversation where she’s holding Galadriel’s face in her hands was excellent. Subtle moments, for me, have greater power than melodrama. And these scenes tell me something I know we’ll soon see: elves and men will, in their fury against death, all make a massive mistake together before eventually allying to make things right.

And I don’t see this general dislike of the harfoot storyline (and absolutely don’t need them to be directly connected to everything else outside thematic parallels and, as we just saw, their proximity to Mordor). So I don’t think these are problems. It’s just a stylistically different thing than the films.

Though I agree that the PJ fan service is its weak point. There’s no reason for the balrog to roar there. Just have the leaf burn in the presence of a shadow and leave it.

The text change was dumb. My least favorite moment. But to me it’s a bit much to allow that to take so much away from a visually stunning, well-written and impeccably acted finale. The Galadriel-Theo and Durin-Durin scenes alone, for me, are enough to justify the whole five seasons of this show.

And Elrond.

This show is doing so much I wish I had seen in the films, and I hope the showrunners don’t feel a need to course correct. The course is true.

[Stranger Wings]

Really liked this episode. I had actually skipped parts of episode 6 (I don’t enjoy action scenes), but this one gripped me.

Who are those scary tall people stalking the Stranger supposed to be?

Sauron/ Morgoth cultists from Rhun, according to a producer.

[Alatar]

Only thing is every time I see or hear "THe Dwarves delved too greedily and deeply" I'm gonna be like ORLY???

ORLY??

Or did you mean ELLY?

ORLY is old skool Netspeek for "Oh really???"

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The more I think about it, the more bizarre I find 'the Celeborn is lost' thing. I find it very difficult to believe they are going to come up with a believable explanation for where he has been for a thousand years or more.

[Alatar]

Maybe in Saurons prison being tortured, which explains why Sauron/Halbrand targets Galadriel as a weak link to get to the Elves. And also why he looks totally PTSD in LotR

Celeborn.jpg (58.64 KiB) Viewed 3665 times

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And sounds like he was the original test subject for when quaaludes were first invented.

[Inanna]

Only thing is every time I see or hear "THe Dwarves delved too greedily and deeply" I'm gonna be like ORLY???

ORLY??

Or did you mean ELLY?

ORLY is old skool Netspeek for "Oh really???"

Oh! I thought you were referring to Orlando Bloom. lol.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I thought that too

[Smaug's voice]

As someone who dislikes melodrama (and just how melodramatic the films were) I really appreciate the understated nature of some important moments, including Míriel’s blindness.

I think there's a fair bit of difference between melodrama and drama, although we clearly disagree on where that line lies.

Just as a tangent, I think people misunderstand and misuse the term "melodrama" a lot and think it's automatically a term with negative connotations whereas irl there's good melodrama and bad ones. The LotR films, Ozu films, Leone films and pretty much all of the silent era are all examples of melodrama done right, imo and I love them for it!

[Nin]

For my part, I found that the blindness of Míriel needed to be underacted. She is the leader of the highest developed human civilisation and she knows that she is contested. She cannot show weakness and emotion like Elendil can do it - his position at this point of time is not particularly important. And she is hurt in her own body which is very different from grieving for a son. Any other and particularly any strongly emotional reaction from her part would have seemed totally out of place for me.

I rather dislike the harefoots, most of all because of their silly hair decorations and insignificant story line and the clichés; the curious girl, the wise elder, the gossipy community…

I actually liked the Mithril story line and depending on how it will be handled, it can be very good. If the dwarfs start digging to deep because they want to help the elves, you have another example of evil coming from good intentions, which is a welcome change to the black and white view of evil of orcs = bad and elves = good. As at least one of the Rings if created from Mithril and helps to keep alive Lothlórien, you can also say that the idea that Mithril contributes to the slowing or even that it stops elvish decay in Middle Earth is already proven true - not in the sense of bathing in the light, but nevertheless.

Númenor was glorious.

I don’t believe in Halbrand = Sauron. I don’t think we have seen Sauron so far.

As for the Meteor Man being a Balrog, that would be a big no from me - Balrogs were creations of Morgoth and I don’t think that anything created by Morgoth can appear beautiful (or even in any form different from their nature), only those created by Eru and twisted by Morgoth can.

(I am honestly not sure I will post again, had a surprising hole in time on my hands today) .