Episode 8 (Spoilers)

[narya]

Gandalf is the only one of the Istari with any interest in Hobbits, so him having favorable encounters with Harfoots early on would make sense. But I'm still not convinced the stranger is Gandalf.

[Dave_LF]

The only pre-release piece on Sadoc I can recall is Henry's brief comments to Empire magazine, which don't mention any wounds. I did a Google search for mentions of "sadoc burrows" from before September 1 (the day of the premiere in the Western Hemisphere) that also contained the word "wound" but didn't come up with anything relevant.

I can't find it again either. The only thing I can think is that I read something about Largo's wound, conflated him with Sadoc since I hadn't seen either yet, and also confused "trying to play it down and push through" for "trying to keep it secret." I did find this rather amusing mistake while searching, though:
https://cinedope.com/every-character-in ... explained/

Screenshot 2022-10-15 204209.png (518.2 KiB) Viewed 5473 times

[Eldy]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That's hilarious!

[samaranth]

This has been an enjoyable journey, and I’ve appreciated the civility and open-mindedness of the discussions here. I’m going to miss the post-episode dissections.

On balance, I can say I really did enjoy the series, odd diversions notwithstanding. I found the last episode pretty compelling, almost entirely due to the confrontation between Halbrand and Galadriel. This was not the direction I wanted the story to take – I thought Halbrand could have had his own interesting storyline – but, really, it was inevitable.

I thought they played that transition, from low Southland man to a powerful Maia very well indeed. It was so tightly framed and almost understated in the way most of those scenes were played. There were also some really subtle effects in there which I only picked up on a second viewing.

There has been a particular plus for me from watching this series - I have learned so much from what everyone here has said that I’m inspired to go back and rebuild my familiarity with the source material. So I might pop up from time to time in those discussions on HoF … but more likely I’ll retreat to my usual state of lurkingness.

[Alatar]

Full version

[Eldy]

I was lukewarm on the ending song when I first heard it before the finale aired, but it's definitely grown on me.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Same. I was the same way with Gollum's Song, which it reminds me of.

[Aravar]

I thought it the best of the Season, in fact it was the only one I've been able to get through in a single sitting. this might be because there was only three threads to follow, no Arondir/Bronwen making eyes at each other and no dwarves.

I wish there has been more on Sauron's influencing of the elves and the forging of the rings. It was all over much too quickly. We didn't get to see Annatar.

I'm certain the stranger is Olórin (or as I've always preferred Manwë). There were too many nods to the films for it to be otherwise.

On that subject there have been to many throughout the season. I thought the fight in this episode was particularly egregious: do Wizards all go horizonal when hit?

I liked the song at the end. I still think Bear McReary's music is a bit too Star Wars like.

[Eldy]

I'm certain the stranger is Olórin (or as I've always preferred Manwë).

Now that would be a deep cut of lore if the show went there! At least it would involve naming a Vala other than Aulë.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

They didn't name Yavanna, but they very clearly invoked her.

[Eldy]

They didn't name Yavanna, but they very clearly invoked her.

Fingers crossed for them to follow up on the Valar in future seasons!

[Eldy]

Arannir on TORn shared a quote from a recent McPayne interview which seems to shed some light on their plans for the forging of the Seven and the Nine.

The Long Road to Mordor: The Rings of Power creators explain Sauron’s identity and their plan to explore the edges of Tolkien’s map - Vulture

Sauron in the books comes to the Elves as Annatar, the “Lord of Gifts.” Halbrand is never referred to by that name, though one tell of his identity early in the episode is that Celebrimbor thanks him for his gifts. Did you decide having someone call him Annatar would be too obvious?

Patrick McKay: We were concerned about a situation where the part of the audience steeped in lore is six or seven episodes ahead of the characters. If deception is an important part of the journey, we wanted to preserve that experience for book readers too. The idea that the shadow can take many forms was part of what we were attracted to. The reference to gifts is a nod to the Annatar of it all, but also, at the end of season one, three rings have been crafted, and as you know from the song Fiona Apple sings at the end of the season, there are still seven for the dwarves, nine for the men, and one for the Dark Lord to come. There are more gifts yet to come.

Underlining mine. My thought after first watching Episode 8 was that Sauron would likely forge the Seven and the Nine himself and then distribute them, though, so it's possible I'm reading this quote through the lens of confirmation bias. I know there are people who expect the other Rings (save the One) to be forged in Eregion and later captured by Sauron, but it just doesn't seem to me like the show is going to follow the books' lead here.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

While we know that Celebrimbor alone forged the Three and Sauron alone forged the One, I can't think of anywhere where it is explicitly stated who made the Seven and the Nine. In the material that they have clear rights to, it says in Appendix B of LOTR "c. 1500 The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power." Then "c. 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion." And finally "c. 1600 Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dûr. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron." That certainly suggests that the 7 and 9 were forged by the Elves with Sauron's help, but it doesn't explicitly state it. In OTROPATTA, it's a little more explicit, "Therefore they hearkened to Sauron, and they learned of him many things, for his knowledge was great. In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves and to bring them under his vigilance." And then of the Three, "Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers."

The way things are left, it is certainly appears that they have changed the order of the making of the Rings, unless they go back and reveal that other Rings had been made before the three that they show (which would seem to contradict the conversation between Celebrimbor, Elrond and Galadriel). It doesn't seem to be to be impossible that they will still have Sauron/Halbrand advising Celebrimbor on the making of additional rings (if they not actually already made), against the advice of Galadriel and Elrond (I am leaving out Gil-galad altogether, because so far as I can tell, a character that at all matches what Tolkien described hasn't yet appeared in the show!). It will be interesting to see how they handle all this.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hidden text.

What'sthis on Valendil's neck

FB_IMG_1666141095358.jpg (48.99 KiB) Viewed 5258 times

[dormouse]

Hidden text.

Looks like the outline of Australia!

[Alatar]

I imagine the actor simply has a scar or tattoo they're covering up

[Eldy]

Severe razor burn. :V

[Eldy]

Quoting from the Episode 7 thread:

Now I'm almost as interested in reading her take on the final episode as I am in ing it myself.

(Not really, but I do find her extended takes interesting.)

https://ravingsanity.wordpress.com/2022 ... 8-alloyed/

Ms. Sas is a good deal more positive about ROP than I am, but like a number of people in the other thread I found her thoughts on the previous episode quite interesting, and I think this post measured up, too. I think the main difference is that I'm less forgiving of eye-rolling moments, not that I find wholly different things eye-roll-worthy. I've seen Episode 8 twice, the second time with my dad, and on a rewatch I found Halbrand and Celebrimbor's alloy conversation an even more baffling creative decision. After a season of hints about Sauron's experiments with the "powers of the Unseen World," his big onscreen moment of dropping knowledge is ... to describe steelmaking to the greatest living Elven-smith in the world. I can't even.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm pretty much aligned with her. I'll tolerate a fair amount of eye-rolling to be able get a show that one can say this about:

It reminded me of Tolkien’s concept of Faerian Drama (as elucidated in his essay “On Fairy-stories”), which is perhaps the hardest conceptual idea Tolkien ever tried to theorize but basically means a kind of lucid dreaming Elves can induce in Men.