Túrin son of Húrin

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:23 pm

I have recently finished reading the part of The Silmarillion which talks about Túrin and this time more than ever it struck me with its beauty. The story of Beren the one handed is very nice but the beauty of Túrin's story is a quite different beauty. I wanted to ask why do you think makes this story so beautiful and so sad (it sort of reminds me of the elves of the late ages)?

Post by **Old_Tom_Bombadil** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:46 pm

I believe the way this is usually done is for the creator of the thread to express their opinions then solicite contributions. I don't mind plunging ahead, but am very interested in reading your impressions of this great story.

I'm afraid I can think of very little that is beautiful about this story. The tale of Húrin's family is a sequence of tragedies, one right after the next. The only thing of real beauty that comes to mind is Beleg's love for his friend Túrin. Alas, that, too, ended in tragedy.

Since you enjoyed this story you ought to read the expanded version, "Narn I Hîn Húrin", that appears in Unfinished Tales.

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:26 pm

Oh yes I've read Narn I Hîn Húrin many times and to tell you the truth until a few days ago I didn't even like the story. Yet now reading it again I was struck by- I find this very hard to explain- the beauty of the tragedies and Túrin's steadfast refusal of giving up (well until the very end after he found out that he had married his sister and really who could blame him?) What I find fascinating about the whole family of Húrin is that even though they were pitted against a many times mightier foe they never stopped fighting. Also there is something strange and sad when Túrin accidently kills Beleg the horror he must have endured after realizing he had killed someone who loved him so much is beyond words. I myself am a bit confused about why I like the tale so that's why I'm asking you guys (and gals)

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:42 pm

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:02 pm

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Who?

Now I'm confused

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:15 pm

Sorry, superwizard, just teasing you a little.

I wasn't really planning on discussing Túrin until we got to him in the Sil thread, but at the rate we are going, that probably won't be until after you have graduated from Stanford.

So I suppose I can come up with something to say.

Meanwhile, to complete the story, you should get your hands on The War of the Jewels and read the Wanderings of Húrin. Very interesting (and important) stuff.

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:41 pm

Ohh Ok thanks V

. I was a bit confused and I was afraid I had gone back to incomprehensible babbling (I do that sometimes - at least that's what people tell me)

Really I was planning to wait until you reached it on your thread but as you would now when you're young you're pretty impatient (at least I am). Your work in The Sil (which is astounding btw) would never been completed by someone who isn't extremely patient and careful (I am neither) and for that reason I got impatient and posted this thread.

Post by **Old_Tom_Bombadil** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:13 pm

They say that cat Túrin was a bad mother..

Shut your mouth!

Well I'm only talkin' 'bout Túrin

We can dig it!

Superwizard dude, if you want to talk about Túrin then you go right ahead and do it. We'll be here for you...

We should probably start off with that whole deal whether or not Túrin has wings. I'm definitely in the "no" camp on this one.

And marrying his sister? Give him a break, she was HOT! Besides, how was he supposed to know that was his sister? It wasn't like he'd seen her recently or anything.

Lastly, I hate to says this but the guy made some bad choices over the years. He was a hot-tempered son-of-a-gun and that usually only leads to trouble. Look what happened to Oedipus. He got all riled up, and the next thing you know he killed his biological father and married his biological mother. How messed up was that!?

I think Túrin would have been a lot better off chillin' out in Menegroth making sweet love to some Elvish babe who wasn't his sister. However, if the King asked him to fetch a Simaril the answer should definitely be "no". It's a lot less risky to buy a knock off from one of the dwarves working the caves than to get one from Angband. Not only do they have poisonous wolves guarding the gates, but the traffic there is murder!

Well that should confuse everyone!

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:39 pm

Very good point Tom

.

Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:We should probably start off with that whole deal whether or not Túrin has wings. I'm definitely in the "no" camp on this one.

Well that's strange I was almost sure he did have wings...

Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:And marrying his sister? Give him a break, she was HOT! Besides, how was he supposed to know that was his sister? It wasn't like he'd seen her recently or anything.

I agree I'm just saying I understand why he killed himself after he found out.

Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:I think Túrin would have been a lot better off chillin' out in Menegroth making sweet love to some Elvish babe who wasn't his sister.

I agree. Tom's wisdom was underestimated...

Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:It's a lot less risky to buy a knock off from one of the dwarves working the caves than to get one from Angband.

Do you know where I can get one of those? Might come in handy one of these days...

Post by **Old_Tom_Bombadil** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:01 pm

superwizard wrote:
Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:It's a lot less risky to buy a knock off from one of the dwarves working the caves than to get one from Angband.
Do you know where I can get one of those? Might come in handy one of these days...

I think they all got dumped in a river with a bunch of gold and other junk during a battle or something. Tough luck, kid.

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:25 pm

Ahh man! Too bad.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:37 am

superwizard wrote:Ohh Ok thanks V . I was a bit confused and I was afraid I had gone back to incomprehensible babbling (I do that sometimes - at least that's what people tell me)
Really I was planning to wait until you reached it on your thread but as you would now when you're young you're pretty impatient (at least I am). Your work in The Sil (which is astounding btw) would never been completed by someone who isn't extremely patient and careful (I am neither) and for that reason I got impatient and posted this thread.

Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to the "Creation of the Published Silmarillion" thread that I have been working; I was referring to the Sil Discussion thread, which I am hoping is going to pick back up again soon.

As for Túrin, he is certainly a very interesting--and very important -- character, certainly worthy of serious and patient discussion.

Post by **Old_Tom_Bombadil** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:05 am

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:As for Túrin, he is certainly a very interesting--and very important -- character, certainly worthy of serious and patient discussion.

V, are you trying to tell us, "Don't be hasty!"

Wiz dude, I think what V is trying to say is don't give away the ending. So mum is the word, okay? Sssshhhh!

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:18 am

. . .

Post by **Alatar** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:36 am

You know, I was really tempted to start a "Silmarillion for Dummies" thread but since there's two Sil threads already I decided against it. Perhaps we could try a tongue in cheek comedy version?

Post by **superwizard** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:53 pm

Thank you MaidenOfTheShieldarm! That'sexactly what I was feeling but I hadn't realized that beauty could stem from darkness. (It reminds me of something Eru said at the beggining of The Sil).

Al I think its a great idea

And V I was referring to Sil Discussion thread

(Just to be clear)- Even though your other work is no less impressive

Post by **Old_Tom_Bombadil** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:58 pm

Alatar wrote:Perhaps we could try a tongue in cheek comedy version?

Debase ourselves with cheeky comedy? I won't stand for it!

*capers off in a huff*

Post by **Old_Tom_Bombadil** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:52 pm

Okay, after much internal debate I have decided to consent to Alatar's request for a more, um, reader-friendly version of "Narn I Hîn Húrin". However, the re-telling of this epic tale will receive all the dignity and respect it deserves. I refuse to insult the intelligence of my dear friends who visit this messageboard or debase the works of Professor John Ronald Reuel Tolkien--whose canonization is long overdue--by writing some cheeky comic version.

So without further adieu I present to you...

Episode One

of

"The Chronicles of Narnia I Hîn Húrin"

Oh wait, that title is sorta already taken, isn't it? Let me try this again...

Episode One

of

"The Húrin Bunch"

Húrin was a man. He was a BIG man. But he was not just any ordinary BIG man. He was an Edain, which in those days meant something.

There is much debate over the meaning of the word Edain. Some say that it is an Elvish term for "Smelly Dude with the Long Straggly Hair". While there is some evidence that this was indeed an enduring trait of the Edain, it is highly unlikely that the Elves would have used these terms to describe a man. After all, they usually reserved their most unflattering descriptions for the Dwarves whom they called Naugrim, meaning "Short Ugly Dudes Who Talk Funny".

Húrin quickly grew to manhood, showing great prowess both at the plate and in the field. Scouts from all over Hithlum came to watch him play ball during his senior year at Dor-lómin High. Alas, on the eve of the big league draft Húrin was selected in a draft of a different sort: Húrin was drafted into the Army.

On the eve of his departure Húrin married his high school sweetheart, Morwen, daughter of Baragund. She was a beautiful girl with raven hair and grey eyes, just like every other living being on Ilúvatar’s green Middle-earth with the exception of a few genetically mutated Elves; their story does not come into this tale.

Lo and behold nine months after her husband’s departure Morwen gave birth to a set of twins, a funny-looking little girl they called “Lalaith” meaning laughter--which they did every time they looked at her--and a son they named “Túrin”. Some had suggested to Morwen that she name her son Húrin after his father, but she didn’t want her son being called “Junior” so she changed the first letter of her husband’s name and left it at that. Alas, Lalaith, weary of being laughed at wherever she went, contracted consumption--a very popular illness in those days--and died.

Two years after he left for basic training Húrin returned home on leave. Nine months later Morwen gave birth to another daughter she named Nienor, which meant “Mourning”. Apparently Morwen had never gotten over the death of her first daughter, for ever and anon when she hath great desire to laugh and be merry she would yearn to gaze upon her own little “Funny Girl" and weep.

After only a single evening filled passion Húrin returned to the front to confront the evil hordes of the Melkor, the fallen Vala whom Fëanor named “Morgoth”, meaning "Big Dark Evil Dude". Alas Húrin was taken prisoner while watching re-runs of "I Love Lucy" after having taken ill from the consumption vaccine he’d received at the camp dispensary. Húrin never did learn the outcome of Lucy’s and Ethel’s adventures at the candy factory. This he regretted until the end of his days.

To be continued...

Post by **superwizard** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:33 pm

Bravo Bravo

Post by **Jnyusa** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:55 am

You guys, if this is going to continue along as a parody thread, could I move it to the Cottage?

Jn