NY Post cartoon

[sauronsfinger]

What do people think about the furor over the New York Post cartoon depicting a recently shot chimpanzee with possible connections to President Obama?

[Elentári]

Viewing from this side of "the Pond", I fail to see the link between the shooting of a violent chimpanzee in Connecticut and the recent Stimulus Bill, unless the cartoonist is making a racist comment.

If I am missing something, please enlighten me.

[axordil]

The claim is that it's an attempt to tie in the chimp shooting, the stimulus, and the old adage about a thousand monkeys producing Shakespeare, given enough time.

It's a lame claim. But it's also a distraction.

[Elentári]

Well, the cartoonist is either ignorant or playing with fire....

[axordil]

I don't think we have to choose there.

[Padme]

Headless Body in Topless Bar.

nuff said.

[Cenedril_Gildinaur]

Bush was routinely compared directly to a chimpanzee, often by me. Comparing the stimulus bill to chimpanzee scribblings is a less direct comparison. I think there's a major sensitivity issue going on - some people are much too sensitive, looking for a racist angle in any criticism. Useful if you want to shut down debate.

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

I'm not so sure that a racist explanation is the correct one.

One of Bush's sobriquets was "the Chimp", so it's not like it's the first time that this kind of comparison was made for a sitting president.

http://www.bushorchimp.com/

Given the context of the former Bush chimp images, it is probable that such an image would have been used if he were still in office, and I doubt that anyone would have objected.

Obama is fair game now. If such an image would have been fair for Bush, it should be fair for Obama without a predisposition to view it as anything other than pointed commentary (which is debatable) using current events as a jumping off point.

The claim is that it's an attempt to tie in the chimp shooting, the stimulus, and the old adage about a thousand monkeys producing Shakespeare, given enough time.

It's a lame claim. But it's also a distraction.

Given the above about Bush, and his famed lack of skill with words, is there any reason to believe that such an image would not have been used if Bush were still in the White House, with the same rationale given?

The main difference is that it would not have been necessary to supply a rationale in the case of Bush, because this issue would not have come up.

In any case, the chimp/stimulus/Shakespeare monkey rationale seems more cogent to me than the idea that the image is intended to be racist.

I would go further and say that I consider it more racist to think that Obama cannot take such commentary and needs to be coddled.

Obama is president. He can take it.

If the Obama presidency is not resilient enough to take a political cartoon that would not even have been met with a raised eyebrow under Bush, then we have bigger concerns.

BrianIs AtYou

[Elentári]

So the people who object to the cartoon are actually the racists because they 've made a connection that wasn't intended?

[Padme]

BrianIsSmilingAtYou

I am in total agreement with what you said, especially the last sentence.


Edit to add that President Obama probably realizes there will be racial slurs against him and that they are allowed under the constitution. He also realizes that the American People don't deserve to have thier freedom of speech impounded under the Patriot Act because one tabloid journalism style newspaper posts one chimp cartoon. President Obama also realizes that a good lot of people are going to make racial slurs against him, and I would bet he realizes the best way to handle that is to succeed, not whine.

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

So the people who object to the cartoon are actually the racists because they 've made a connection that wasn't intended?

Please don't twist my words.

They are making it a racial issue when it is one of political commentary.

Do you honestly believe that such an image would not have been used if Bush were still in office?

It is for responses like this that I rarely participate in this forum.

* lurk mode *

BrianIs AtYou

[Elentári]

Brian - I was not trying to twist your words....

Of course I don't think it would not have been used for Bush. There just wouldn't have been this reaction if it was Bush.

[Primula Baggins]

Brian, you make an excellent point. For years Bush was referred to as some variation of "Chimpy" on the ruder liberal blogs.

I do need to point out, though, that hats, T-shirts, and signs equating Obama with a monkey of some kind were photographed with some frequency at some Republican candidate rallies during the campaign. If people are hypersensitive, there might be an explanation for it.

[sauronsfinger]

Prim has an excellent point. I vividly recall during the last two weeks of the presidential campaign seeing smiling McCain/Palin supporters bring Curious George toys with Obama stickers or pins on them to rallies and getting great laughs and kudos for it. Then others put the image on T-shirts which were also worn at McCain/Palin rallies.

To pretend that there is not a sordid and sad history of equating African-Americans with apes or chimps is worse than disengenuous.

The other issue that comes to mind is the violence used in the cartoon depicting someone as just shot. If the chimp is suppose to be President Obama, does something like this not play into the assassination speculation that is rife out there?

This cartoon is wrong on so many levels.

It hopefully will lead to an examination and questioning of the practices of large corporate media - in this case the Post owned by Rupert Murdoch. Is there more than just coincidence here that Murdoch also owns FOX News - the nearly round the clock critic of Obama and the Democratic Party? Murdoch is emulating the policies of Hearst and his yellow journalism a century ago.

[Cenedril_Gildinaur]

If the Obama presidency is not resilient enough to take a political cartoon that would not even have been met with a raised eyebrow under Bush, then we have bigger concerns.

BrianIs AtYou

Bravo, and exactly on point.

[sauronsfinger]

Here is but one example of how poitics and racism was around during the campaign.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03613.html

I would point out that there is no societal history going back two centuries of depicting white southerners as apes or chimps. What was done to Bush was childish but it had no racism attached. For African-Americans there is a long and painful history of seeing their race depicted as sub-human and animalistic.

Th great boxers Jack Johnson and Joe Louis were sometimes portrayed in cartoon form as drooling apes. Those cartoons are not hard to find.

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/cartoons/

[Padme]

I honestly think that if the NYPost cartoon is a racial slur, President Obama can and will rise above it, and prove it wrong.

And if President Obama dares to censor the press (no matter how craptastic it is) I will be very disappointed to say the least. We have had too many years of 'liberal' media bashing and I for one would like to see President Obama take the high ground and let his record and actions speak for themselves, instead of some tabloid paper.


President Obama has been a black man all his life, I am sure he knows what he got himself into. He probably also knows he is going to have twice as many racial slurs and have to work a lot harder to prove himself to some people. He knows it will be the only way to move forward and make things better.

[axordil]

SF and Prim are correct. There's a subtext and history present for President Obama vis a vis cartoon depictions simply not present for W. With Bush, it was "simply" snarky and childish. With Obama, it's that AND the history of this specific cartoon motif with his specific racial background.

[vison]

Bush was routinely compared directly to a chimpanzee, often by me. Comparing the stimulus bill to chimpanzee scribblings is a less direct comparison. I think there's a major sensitivity issue going on - some people are much too sensitive, looking for a racist angle in any criticism. Useful if you want to shut down debate.

I agree.

[Elentári]

I have to agree with sf.

There would be no problem in comparing the American President with a monkey if it was a historical caricature of the position/job.

From my point of view in England, although not in politics, there have been several high-profile instances of racism in European football where black players have been compared to monkeys - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_football

And it is not a comparison anyone should be comfortable with.