Agreed.anthriel wrote:
ON topic, I have to say, as a card-carrying Republican: y'all Repubs need to cave, already. Give it up. You are accomplishing nothing worth having, and you are putting people through really tough times for NOTHING.
I really don't get the point of this, at all.
Sadly, I wasn't really...Jewel wrote: I do think Eru was being a bit facetious when she referred to it as "the naughty person's forum" and I thought it was kind of funny, myself.
I completely agree. Though I think actual religion is a huge factor (and racism.) I'm always reminded of this Barry Goldwater quote when thinking about this:Cerin wrote:But I think people tend to underestimate the depth and breadth of the cognitive divide that exists and is ever-widening in this country. I believe these Teapublicans who have orchestrated the shut down really don't see it as an illegitimate tactic. They really believe they are the true defenders of our democracy and are protecting the American people from terrible evils, and that any sort of tactic is acceptable to achieve those goals. They are truly jihadists, in the sense of conviction and religious fervor (their religion being this peculiar set of beliefs that motivates them).
(edit: and I post that not to rant against Christians, but rather the injection of religion into politics. Just wanted to be clear on that.)Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
Rachel Maddow did a piece showing how a shutdown has been in the works for a few years now. It's very worth watching (and I hope you won't immediately discredit her as she's a liberal. She's very good at backing her positions with facts and good research.)Anthriel wrote:Wow. I had no idea.
From Indiana Rep. Marlin Stutzman:I really don't get the point of this, at all.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/gop-stand ... le/2536750We’re not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.
I don't think there is a unified point. There's an instigating group with certain beliefs about the Constitution and the federal government, and there's Boehner, who had to placate the radicals in order to retain his leadership position (he was humiliatingly replaced as speaker once before and doesn't want to repeat the experience), and then there are those who thought (and may still think) the Pres. and the Dems would cave as they've always done in the past.Anthriel wrote:I really don't get the point of this, at all.
That quote is right on the money. I was just reading today that Ted Cruz's father is the pastor of a dominionist church in Florida. The dominionists believe Christians (of a certain ilk) are meant to rule according to biblical principles; I'm not sure how they reconcile this with the Constitution, but they have no trouble with the apparent contradiction.Erunáme wrote: I completely agree. Though I think actual religion is a huge factor (and racism.) I'm always reminded of this Barry Goldwater quote when thinking about this:
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
Yeah, back in the day. But we sure do miss him now.Primula Baggins wrote:Barry Goldwater was kind of a nightmare in a lot of other ways, at least for liberals back in that day.
I don't think the shutdown is part of some grand strategy so much as "wait a minute; we get to stick it to Obama, maybe derail the ACA, and shut the federal government down for a while? Win win win baby!".Erunáme wrote:Rachel Maddow did a piece showing how a shutdown has been in the works for a few years now. It's very worth watching (and I hope you won't immediately discredit her as she's a liberal. She's very good at backing her positions with facts and good research.)Anthriel wrote:Wow. I had no idea.
The fact that you are concerned I would "immediately discredit" her because she's a liberal makes me sad, a little. I am actually much more middle-of-the-road than many people here, which is one of the reasons why I can post at all in these types of discussions. A true conservative would really find no common ground here, IMHO.Erunáme wrote: Rachel Maddow did a piece showing how a shutdown has been in the works for a few years now. It's very worth watching (and I hope you won't immediately discredit her as she's a liberal. She's very good at backing her positions with facts and good research.)
This isn't the first time I've heard this lately, and it REALLY makes me sad.Though I think actual religion is a huge factor (and racism.)
It was more of a 'just in case' statement. I have no knowledge of what you may think about her, but I do know that many conservatives don't like what she has to say. I probably said that because I'd already experienced other conservatives immediately writing her off and refusing to watch that clip.anthriel wrote:The fact that you are concerned I would "immediately discredit" her because she's a liberal makes me sad, a little. I am actually much more middle-of-the-road than many people here, which is one of the reasons why I can post at all in these types of discussions. A true conservative would really find no common ground here, IMHO.
I know you're very much a moderate and are open to discussion.
No, he has been Speaker continuously since 2010, and never was Speaker before that. He was narrowly reelected this year after an insurrection by the Tea Party conservatives who are driving the current situation. What you might be thinking of is that in 1998, he was ousted as the chairman of the House Republican Conference, after his party lost five congressional seats. He later came back to be surprisingly elected as Majority Leader in 2006(when Dennis Hassert was Speaker). When the GOP lost the House and Nancy Pelosi became Speaker, he was elected Minority Leader. Then when the GOP regained the House he became Speaker, and has been so ever since.Cerin wrote:and there's Boehner, who had to placate the radicals in order to retain his leadership position (he was humiliatingly replaced as speaker once before and doesn't want to repeat the experience.
I am always hearing that I do not do enough research and reading, and the truth is I don't. My husband is SO strong in this political stuff, and his beliefs are diametrically opposed to those on this board. My moderate views disappoint him, I think. 
